Proof of Kenpachi's Shikai? Translators Only.

[Poncho Sama]

I don't get yall. Have you ever heard of a play on words. I swear. Here is why kenpachi DOES NOT HAVE SHIKAI.

1. WHEN DID ICHIGO FIND OUT ABOUT BANKAI?
Ichigo didn't know about bankai when he fought with kenpachi. He found out about bankai after he fought byakuya on the bridge. Therefore his conversation with him should be kept in that context. When Ichigo told kenpachi to release his sword he meant shikai. Kenpachi said he couldn't do that.

Tell me this. How else can you interpret "I didn't put any seal in it, this is the only form of my sword, my sword has no name". If kenpachi had shikai he would be fighting with the power of his sword. Something which he clearly makes fun of other people for doing. Consequently if he knew shikai and used it there is no reason for someone of his ability not to have bankai. Not to mention that even in a constantly released state you still need to know the name of your sword to get it to that level.

Don't you guys remember the whole shikai training Urahara did with ichigo. Ichigo got his previous sword chopped to bits before he learned the name of his sword and release zangetsu. Kenpachi sword is the same as the swords of the academy students. Except in his case he has so much raw strength he can put enough of his own reitsu in his sword to fight anyone. Think about Ichigo when he initially took rukia's power. He only infused his reitsu into his sword to make it strong. However he had no shikai cause he didn't no the name of his sword.

[Rurouni272000]

Word, man, word. I could hardly agree more. Believe it or not Shade, it does make a substantial difference that Kenpachi did not say Shikai and instead said 'true form'. I'll say it again: Kenpachi said that "this is my zanpakuto's true form" to express the notion that he has no release, no powerups, no gimicks; what you SEE is what you GET. If he had shikai then why not say "This is my released form (or Shikai), fool." Kenpachi having Shikai goes against any sort of sense that could be made regarding zanpakuto and their power and ties to teh Shinigami.

Ichigo DID NOT have his new sword until he screamed out its name; you simply can't ignore the sword's power, claim that it has no name and that "working together with your zanpakuto is for weaklings", and say that you only fight with your own strength if you have a shikai. It doesn't make sense AT ALL. The only thing that makes sense is that Kenpachi's sword is just a sword that he didn't know the name of, nor the powers of, because he was so assured of his own strngth that he never wanted to work with the zanpakuto.

[SHADENINJA]

And you are still wrong good sir

When Ichigo told kenpachi to release his sword he meant shikai. Kenpachi said he couldn't do that.

There is your flaw. He did not say "I can't do that", he said that his swrod was already "naked", in other words, it didn't have a seal. He went on to explain that it could never be sealed, it was ALWAYS UNSEALED. You can keep arguing all you want but there are 2 videos and 2 pages in this thread that state the same thing


Regardless, Kenpachi's VA is awesome, but sadly they're right, Bleach was temp. canceled for Deathnote which is an awesome comic but a horrible anime, like Naruto. The choppy animation and cut corners distract from how intricate the plot is. DeathNote is a story that can only be read

[Rurouni272000]

A question for pondering... if something has no seal, can it be unsealed? Or is it just that: without a seal. I say that Kenpachi has no seal, but that does not necessarily mean that it is unsealed... just that it doesn't exist.

[SHADENINJA]

^ Well then you belong in France, with the rest of the irrational world

If it has no seal, even if it never had one, it is unsealed

for example, if a door isn't locked, even if it was never locked, it is still unlocked (open)

[weasel flare]

question: if kenpachi doesnt know his sword name what does it matter that its shikai or not

[SHADENINJA]

^ Exactly the point

It doesn't matter.

It is Shikai, but doesn't have Shikai powers, because he doesn't know it's name, and thus can't ask for it's help.

Am I scratching everyone's surface yet?

[Poncho Sama]

Originally Posted by weasel flare

question: if kenpachi doesnt know his sword name what does it matter that its shikai or not

It does matter because........

THAT'S HOW YOU GET SHIKAI.

You can't use shikai powers if you don't know your soul slayers name. Do yall even read this manga?

[SHADENINJA]

Not quite

afterall, Kenachi has Shikai, bu doesn't know the name of his Zanpakuto

[Poncho Sama]

Originally Posted by Shadeninja

Not quite

afterall, Kenachi has Shikai, bu doesn't know the name of his Zanpakuto

Are you purposely messing with us?

[o({})o]

I think the question of whether Kenpachi has a shikai depends more on the only other person who's in his situation... So, what is Ichigo's shikai?

[Poncho Sama]

Originally Posted by o({})o

I think the question of whether Kenpachi has a shikai depends more on the only other person who's in his situation... So, what is Ichigo's shikai?

But Ichigo isn't in his situation because he knows the name of his soul slayer.

[o({})o]

Originally Posted by ponchocam

But Ichigo isn't in his situation because he knows the name of his soul slayer.

Does Ichigo use his sword's name for anything? Not last time I checked. It's nice that he knows it, but it doesn't make his situation different from Kenpachi's.

As I see it, Ichigo's shikai is one of two things... Either it is his outrageously sized sword, which is always in a released state (constant shikai). Or, it is getsuga, which he uses following a command. Personally, I always considered getsuga to be his shikai, which means Kenpachi has none. However, since kai means form, there is a strong argument that the sword's constantly released form itself is shikai. If that's the case, then Kenpachi definitely does have shikai, whether he knows the name or not. Ichigo had shikai before he knew his sword's name as well if that is the case.

[Righteous Judgment]

Originally Posted by weasel flare

question: if kenpachi doesnt know his sword name what does it matter that its shikai or not

I think it does matter honestly. For the same reason that ichigo could use a weakend "Getsuga Tensho" because he didn't know the attacks name.

Originally Posted by ponchocam

When Ichigo told kenpachi to release his sword he mean't shikai.

Yeah that should be obvious Ichigo didn't even know there was such a thing as "constant release" when he asked Kenpachi ro release his sword so he just assumed ken's sword was in it's sealed state besides that converstation with Kenpachi happened in vol 13 the first Bankai wouldn't even be shown until vol 15

Kenpachi said he couldn't do that.

I myself (and Ichigo as I will show from a scan) took Kenpachi's response as "My sword has always been released and there is no method to seal/restrain it"

scans are from Ch 109 pg 16 & 17, and Ch 120 pg 7. That should really end this arguement for good on this board atleast. Even before thae databook came out the information was layed out in the open but I guess the english speaking fandom just wasn't paying full attention until the Databook came out.

Do we really need Ken or someone else to phrase things so directly and awkwardly as to say "I/he have/has constant shikai, I/he can't make it go back to normal unreleased state, cause no sealing method has ever worked" cause that what ch 109 covered and then ichigo confirmed in ch 120 of course it wasn't said in such a direct and awkward way and it didn't have to be.

You(I mean all those who disagree about Ken having perma shikai in general) can argue "it doesn't make sense" all you want, but it doesn't have to make sense to you. All that matter's is that Kubo himself is satisfied with how plots develop. I mean there already the example of Getsuga Tensho being weaker just because ichigo didn't know it's name. So I really have no issues with Ken having Shikai but no access to special features because he doesn't know it name
/End Rant

[Poncho Sama]

Originally Posted by Chance Jackson

I think it does matter honestly. For the same reason that ichigo could use a weakend "Getsuga Tensho" because he didn't know the attacks name.

Yeah that should be obvious Ichigo didn't even know there was such a thing as "constant release" when he asked Kenpachi ro release his sword so he just assumed ken's sword was in it's sealed state besides that converstation with Kenpachi happened in vol 13 the first Bankai wouldn't even be shown until vol 15


I myself (and Ichigo as I will show from a scan) took Kenpachi's response as "My sword has always been released and there is no method to seal/restrain it"

scans are from Ch 109 pg 16 & 17, and Ch 120 pg 7. That should really end this arguement for good on this board atleast. Even before thae databook came out the information was layed out in the open but I guess the english speaking fandom just wasn't paying full attention until the Databook came out.

Hopefully we won't have another situation where a lot of fans refuse to accept the information given in canon on some trumped up ground like when we had Tsunade and Giraiya confirmed that the 4th was indeed naruto father. "Oh wait they could have been talking about somebody else", "thats not what they meant by that", "bla bla bla some 'ol bs reason I concocted to believe Minato is Naruto's dad yet not the same person as the 4th hokage"

Do we really need Ken or someone else to phrase things so directly and awkwardly as to say "I/he have/has constant shikai, I/he can't make it go back to normal unreleased state, cause no sealing method has ever worked" cause that what ch 109 covered and then ichigo confirmed in ch 120 of course it wasn't said in such a direct and awkward way and it didn't have to be.

You(I mean all those who disagree about Ken having perma shikai in general) can argue "it doesn't make sense" all you want, but it doesn't have to make sense to you. All that matter's is that Kubo himself is satisfied with how plots develop. I mean there already the example of Getsuga Tensho being weaker just because ichigo didn't know it's name. So I really have no issues with Ken having Shikai but no access to special features because he doesn't know it name
/End Rant

It does not say in any scan "my sword has always been released". Where did you get that from.

[hi its me]

Wow so much for a translators only thread.

I don't really mind whether Kenpachi has a shikai or not.

As long as he's kicking ass and cutting up shit everythings good.