Black Cat vs Vash the stampede

[bluewingedD]

I've just starting reading this Manga called Black Cat.And the Main character of this story, has already shown me gunman ship skill and speed on a level equal to vash's. So if you've read Black Cat then tell me who you think would win.

At the moment the only restriction is that Vash can't use his angel buster.

[ifeanyi84]

vash would win this. vash is a plant. even without using the full transformaion of his angel buster, vash still wouldnt lose. he has that auto-defense thing that would just stop any and all of black cat's bullets if necessary. vash could also use his power to make those special bullets like he did in that final fight with knives. i personally dont think that black cat stands a chance.

[bluewingedD]

I disagree, from what I've seen for for Black cat's marksmen ship is better. He speed, is about even if not a little bit better. And his gun is indestructible, and he can use it as an effective defense, and he has special bullets of his own.

I don't think Vash's auto defense is all that great sinc ehe has been shot several time through the series. So I really don't see it doing much against Black cat.

[ifeanyi84]

the only reason he was getting shot was because at those points in the manga vash wasnt really in touch with his abilities as a plant. as soon as he hit the point where he started using his abilities, he was stopping bullets like it was nothing. i cant really see black cat matching him. as knives put it, even the gung ho guns with all of their enhancements were nothing but trash compared to him. vash was still matching knives after he had cointegrated with pretty much almost all the plants on the planet. i think that's a tall task for black cat to compare to.

[Righteous Judgment]

I think manga exclusive abilities should also be restricted.

Even still I give this to Vash, Train ain't no joke but Vash is More resilient and has his trusty magnum and secret machine gun while Train only has Hades.

[bluewingedD]

only has hades? Do you know how sick hades is? He blocks machine gun fire, like it's nothing with hades. With a smile on his face, plus he has his burst bullet, his freeze bullet, and then his has the Rail gun shot, and then the rail gun blast. black cat is going to murder Vash, with Hades. And then he has very powerful close range combat attacks, the cat claws( that ripped with the strongest tao attack that that bug lady could do) , and the black cross, (which was stronger enough when use simutuenously with cat claws to scare an immortal tao user). I don't see vash winning. there's also the reflect shot, that vash won't see coming.

At some point in thiis I see Black cat shoting a bullet down the barrel of vashes gun, and total messing it up.

[Righteous Judgment]

Ok then I'm only familiar with the black cat anime so perhaps I should pull out of this argument altogether.

[bluewingedD]

didn't even know they had an anime.. how far along is it? Where are they in the story?

[yoon0401]

i only started to watch the anime but it starts off way differnet from the manga..only watched the first ep lol...for starters train is still in chronos, saya is still alive and sven is just wondering by himself as a sweeper

[Mika-kun]

Originally Posted by bluewingedD

didn't even know they had an anime.. how far along is it? Where are they in the story?

The manga and anime are complete opposites IMO.

I'm not sure here but I'd lean more towards Train with all of his abilities, his marksmanship is superb. Not to mention his overall physical "abilities" aren't too shabby.

[ifeanyi84]

the reason i still say vash is that regardless of what he does, black cat isnt gonna kill vash with bullets. vash could just stop the bulltes out of the air. even if he got hit, they mentioned that vash could heal himself of his wounds with his power, despite the fact that he always chooses not to. there's also the fact that in this thread, there's the assumption that vash is not limiting himself by trying to avoid killing. the gung-ho guns were overmatched against him, and they were all superhuman; stronger, faster, in some cases healing factors, and various other enhancements. there's no way that train puts a bullet down the barrel of vash's gun. i dont get how train is supposed to beat someone who was able to match knives at the height of his power.

[bluewingedD]

HAve you read Black Cat? Everyone that train has fought and defeated easily towards the end of the Manga, was superhuman. The main villain was immortal, and Train still managed to win, and all the while he was trying not to kill anyone of them. These people who have the use of Tao, giving them extreme, and ridiculus abilities in some cases. Train, has special bullets, that don't have to kill Vash but will immoblize him. Train can fire bullets, through the air ricasha them off walls, and different Directions, and hit his target with ridiculus accuracy. Please tell what's stopping Train from shooting a bullet down the barrel of Vashes gun?

From what I've seen,from both of their gunman ship it's very possible. And again, train doesn't have to just beat him with bullets, he also has deadly close range attacks as well. And Adding on to that fact, he has a power as well, it's called the rail gun. He uses nano machines in his body, to create an electric charge, and then he can launch his bullet, with speed, and power far exceeding that of any normal bullet. A fighter, who could easily punch a barrage of bullets out of the air easily, couldn't even follow the movement of the bullet. And when he uses the rail gun in conjuction with his burst bullet, the recoil, was strong enough to break his Hades, that is made from a material, that's suppose to be unbreakable. I would like to see Vash stop that.

[ifeanyi84]

i know about the bullets. the angles, trajectories, and all of that dont matter. whether they ricochet or come straight at him or whatever, it's all the same. the automatic defense would stop him from getting shot. that's after you take into acount the fact that vash is a plant that is naturally gifted mentally and physically beyond human capability, and that train would have a hard enough time shooting him anyway. creed wasnt really immortal, he just had those nanomachines in him. you ask if i read black cat. i ask have you read trigun maximum? at one point after he had cointegrated with the other plants, knives was compared to a small star. vash still was able to match him. even when vash was immobilized by legato bluesummers, the automatic defense still prevented legato from coming over and trying to harm him. for one thing, if train was to come up close and try to attack vash, that would be asking for trouble.

[Seshen]

Originally Posted by bluewingedD

I've just starting reading this Manga called Black Cat.And the Main character of this story, has already shown me gunman ship skill and speed on a level equal to vash's. So if you've read Black Cat then tell me who you think would win.

At the moment the only restriction is that Vash can't use his angel buster.

Ok since yopu said that the only restriction on vast is the angel arm cannon I'm considering him to have all his other abilities intact.

Since the source of Vash's power is his plant nature, he still has his feathers which can absorb the impact of machine gun fire andbe deployed at any time Vash sees fit. He has his "POWER" augmented bullits, each has the split moment of infinate power. Not to mention his coat is immune to lo calibur bullit impacts.

Vash has lightning fast observation skills and can analize trajectories of incomming fiire. hence how he's able to dodge enemy fire spazticly.

Vash is damn near the god of gunmen. I've read Black cat, but I dont see how Vash looses this fight.

[kEblAdEmAstA]

Originally Posted by bluewingedD

HAve you read Black Cat? Everyone that train has fought and defeated easily towards the end of the Manga, was superhuman. The main villain was immortal, and Train still managed to win, and all the while he was trying not to kill anyone of them. These people who have the use of Tao, giving them extreme, and ridiculus abilities in some cases. Train, has special bullets, that don't have to kill Vash but will immoblize him. Train can fire bullets, through the air ricasha them off walls, and different Directions, and hit his target with ridiculus accuracy. Please tell what's stopping Train from shooting a bullet down the barrel of Vashes gun?

From what I've seen,from both of their gunman ship it's very possible. And again, train doesn't have to just beat him with bullets, he also has deadly close range attacks as well. And Adding on to that fact, he has a power as well, it's called the rail gun. He uses nano machines in his body, to create an electric charge, and then he can launch his bullet, with speed, and power far exceeding that of any normal bullet. A fighter, who could easily punch a barrage of bullets out of the air easily, couldn't even follow the movement of the bullet. And when he uses the rail gun in conjuction with his burst bullet, the recoil, was strong enough to break his Hades, that is made from a material, that's suppose to be unbreakable. I would like to see Vash stop that.

plus his railgun gives them a huge shock of electricity when it hits, also he has those medicine bullets that he used of the sumo that makes them not move for an hour, i give this to train, and lol, nice reference to River their BluewingeD with the punching bullets thing

[Death The Kid]

Originally Posted by Seshen

Ok since yopu said that the only restriction on vast is the angel arm cannon I'm considering him to have all his other abilities intact.

Since the source of Vash's power is his plant nature, he still has his feathers which can absorb the impact of machine gun fire andbe deployed at any time Vash sees fit. He has his "POWER" augmented bullits, each has the split moment of infinate power. Not to mention his coat is immune to lo calibur bullit impacts.

Vash has lightning fast observation skills and can analize trajectories of incomming fiire. hence how he's able to dodge enemy fire spazticly.

Vash is damn near the god of gunmen. I've read Black cat, but I dont see how Vash looses this fight.

You've said you read Black Cat, so I'm not going to try and discredit that, but to me it seems as if you don't understand what's going on in Black Cat. The only thing that will work against Balck, that Vash has would be his angel cannon, and since that's gone I see nothing that will work against Train.

Train observastional skills can also analize trajectories of in coming fire, hince why he is also able to dodge emeny fire, sparictly. Vash isn't THE god of gunmen, he's a god, and the only way to beat a god is by another god, and that would be Train, who is also a god of gunman. Train doesn't have lo cabliber bullets, his gun is indisstrutible, his rail gun shot was too fast, for some who dodges bullets just as easuly as vash, to even follow.

If his bullets won't do the job, which I seriously doubt, even with his, able to stop them, even though we;ve seen him hit by bullets on many occassion, and being able to absorb the damage from a machine gun, ,and the bullets that Black Cat use are 2 completely different things.

Train doesn't need feathers to block machine gun fire, his blocks it with his indestructible Black gun, with ease... Train and Vash, are almost equal in every way, except for the fact that Black Cat seems to be quicker, and more skilled of a gun man.....and phyiscally stronger....so I guess their not so even.

[ifeanyi84]

if train tried to black one of vash's power bullets with his gun, or anthing else in the world for that matter, i'm willing to bet that it would break. the bullets are made directly out of his plant energy (see angel buster). vash doesnt actually need the feathers to block machine gun fire. he only did it because when wolfwood was fighting with razlo, razlo fired at the lady and the kids. train's observational skills may be good, but there is no way that they are on the level with vash's. the fact that vash was able to match knives at the height of his power using nothing but his gun and power bullets should speak for itself. if you think that train would have faired well against knives, you're kidding yourself.

[bluewingedD]

He's gun won't break becasue it's indestrucible, the same rules that apply to his world applies in Vashes world as well, nothing short of the angel will be able to break that damn gun. DO you know the people train have gone against? All the super human, tao users, have all lost int the face of just Train and his gun, even without he rail gun... he defeated someone who could manipultate relity, create pocket universes.... And you have obsolutly no proff that his observantional skills, fall short of VAshes in no way, or that he wouldn't be able to handle knives, nothing, other then your baises throws Vash, who honestly, without Angel Buster, has shown nothing that puts him over Train, or Train's gunmen ship

[ifeanyi84]

there would be no point in me offering commentary if i hadnt read black cat. it's funny that the gun is indestructable but somehow managed to be partly destroyed. have you read trigun? what's the difference between the angel arm cannon and the bullets that vash made using his plant energies? i could see if vash was prevented from using any of his plant abilities, but taking away just the angel arm cannon isnt enough to swing the fight in train's favor.

[bluewingedD]

Yeah it really is, becasue you haven't provided me with anything, that says Train can't handle it.. He can block machine gun fire with his feathers, big whoop, Machine guns aint gun shit on Train's gun, or it's capabilities. The difference is that the Angel arm blasted a crater in the moon and casues mass destruction from it's recoil, that's the differnece and it's a big one.