current ichigo vs current kenpaichi

[KillMe]

Originally Posted by Marlie

Your an idiot. When has someone nullified his speed in battle? Every enemy Ichigo has faced since he fought Byakuya has been waaaaaaay stronger and faster than Byakuya. So using Byakuya as a mesurment is completely retared. Ichigo is'nt the fastest character in the series anymore cause he never was. There we always more bigger fish in the pond like Aizen and the other senior Captains lurking around. Back to the topic at hand Viazard Ichigo would smoke Ken. Other than some old sword moves Ken has'nt shown much improvement while Ichigo powered up by leaps and bounds.

and yet byakuya defeated the fastest of the espada - and as for ichigo not beign teh fastest anymroe thats my point - what is the point of a bankai that only gives you speed whe with abit fo straining shunpou is better? basicallya s i been sayign from teh start ichigos bankai got nerfed the second it was shown that shunpou can keep up with it

as for ichigos improvements - honestly whats improved? his speed? not seen much evididence of that though i admit hes able to occasiaonlly get behind his opponent with shunpou now though rarely well enough to prevent them turning around and blocking his attacks

attack power? nothing on kenpachi's that much is clear - but to be hoesnt so far his first getsuga tenshou against urahara seems to have been his best and most powerful one todate

so please point out where ichigo's improvement has come from?

now sure he will improve soon too gonna need to to fight uli who seriously whooped his ass alst time - but his improvement rate is no better than the captains and infact appears to be less than kenpachi's improvement - sure kenpachi doesn't any named to call out etc but hes definatly got stronger

[Marlie]

Originally Posted by KillMe

and yet byakuya defeated the fastest of the espada - and as for ichigo not beign teh fastest anymroe thats my point - what is the point of a bankai that only gives you speed whe with abit fo straining shunpou is better? basicallya s i been sayign from teh start ichigos bankai got nerfed the second it was shown that shunpou can keep up with it

Bullshit. Zomari dominated Byakuya in that speed battle. Since when has someone plain Shunpo been able to keep up with Ichigo? Byakuya was only able to keep up with Ichigo because he slowed down. Ichigo has over come that. Ichigo's movements are still superior to Shunpo because everything Ichigo does it at Shunpo speed. Hand eye coordination, reaction speed reflexes. Do you even know what a Shunpo is? It's when the user uses their reiatsu to push themselves off of one foot a distance. Ichigo actually physically runs foot before foot in Bankai. Byakuya was still able to Shunpo around at the same speed once he cut his leg fighting Zomari cause he still had a good leg to Shunpo off of but he still was'nt able to really walk.

Originally Posted by KillMe

as for ichigos improvements - honestly whats improved? his speed? not seen much evididence of that though i admit hes able to occasiaonlly get behind his opponent with shunpou now though rarely well enough to prevent them turning around and blocking his attacks

He's a Viazard now you moron.

Originally Posted by KillMe

attack power? nothing on kenpachi's that much is clear - but to be hoesnt so far his first getsuga tenshou against urahara seems to have been his best and most powerful one todate

Lies.

Originally Posted by KillMe

now sure he will improve soon too gonna need to to fight uli who seriously whooped his ass alst time - but his improvement rate is no better than the captains and infact appears to be less than kenpachi's improvement - sure kenpachi doesn't any named to call out etc but hes definatly got stronger

How has he gotten stronger? He sandbagged the entire fight with Ichigo then took of the eyepatch for one attack. With Nnoitora he actually fought a long time with the eyepatch and was still getting cut to ribbons THEN resorted to brushing the dust off some old ass sword skills that he does'nt bother using. Ken did'nt show anything knew...he just matched the potential of the opponent he was fighting like he did with Ichigo.

You've got nothing going for you in your argument other than "Ken beat a higher number so he MUST be stronger" which has'nt been that case since the HM started. In straight up speed, versatility and ability. Ichigo STILL has Ken whooped by leaps and bound and he's still a reiatsu beast like Ken. Comparing two of the same types of fighter like Ichigo and Grim and Nnoitora vs Ken of course your gonna get close matches but switch those up and it's a fight that goes to the quickest damage dealer and the one who takes the most damage is the loser. Elbow spines, Cero's, Gran Rei, GT and Bankai speed boosted in Viazard plus possible Berserker Viazard/status. How the hell do you compete with that? Ken and Nnoi have nothing but melee and Nnoitora has a Cero and that's it. And don't give me that lame ass "Oh Ken will just get stabbed and hold him like he did Tousen!" Ken tried that during thier fight and Ichigo dodged it so he ain't falling for that. Play keep away with tanks and they go down with no problem. It's the fast ones you have to watch out for.

[Vizard Hiei]

Originally Posted by Marlie

and you don't think he could beat Nnoitora? Grim sure has no qualms about going head to head with Uli. Based on both of them going all out on each other I'd say Grim kicks the shit outta Nnoitora. Nnoi has nothing going for him brute strength and tanking damage which Grim can dish out a whole lot of. A>B>C does'nt work here.

the only bad stat grimmjow has is his durability/endurance

he got owned by 5 attacks

and if ulquiorria is stronger than noitoria

then he can finish him off with one simple slash

[Marlie]

Originally Posted by Vizard Hiei

the only bad stat grimmjow has is his durability/endurance

he got owned by 5 attacks

and if ulquiorria is stronger than noitoria

then he can finish him off with one simple slash

He sure took that ass kicking from Viazard Ichigo back in Karakura on the chin and was about to kepy fighting despite being down an arm. Grim is pretty steady in the durabilty department.

[Vizard Hiei]

^ not in there final battle though (either that or vizard ichigo became really super strong)

[Marlie]

Originally Posted by Vizard Hiei

^ not in there final battle though (either that or vizard ichigo became really super strong)

C'mon either he took the ass kicking on the chin or he did'nt. Nothing changed for Grim in between that time frame. I mean he did get slashed across the chest, cut down the middle then impaled on Ichigo's sword and he was still ready to fight after that. Grim is durable and hard to put down. The guy is insane.

[Vizard Hiei]

vizard ichigo beat unreleased grimmjow

then

released grimmjow was beating a more powerful version of vizard ichigo (and would of won if it wasnt for orihime) but ended up loosing in the end still again

theres a big difference between his released and unreleased form

[Marlie]

Originally Posted by Vizard Hiei

vizard ichigo beat unreleased grimmjow

then

released grimmjow was beating a more powerful version of vizard ichigo (and would of won if it wasnt for orihime) but ended up loosing in the end still again

theres a big difference between his released and unreleased form

That I know. Viazard Ichigo was kicking the shit out of but still was'nt able to kill a one armed unreleased Grim. Fighting on even terms in HM the ass kicking was'nt that bad but Ichigo came close to losing by a small margin. You still can't compare the two. Unreleased Grim took a beating and was still raring to go. Panthera Grim took some slashes and a impaling and was still raring to go. I don't see your argument. Grim is still tough as nails.

[Vizard Hiei]

i am kind of new to bleach but i though a espadas unreleased form was there final form? (like grimmjows pantera form)

[Marlie]

Originally Posted by Vizard Hiei

i am kind of new to bleach but i though a espadas unreleased form was there final form? (like grimmjows pantera form)

It's their final form, unless the top 3 have something else to show.

[GiantMidget]

Marlie, i doubt Aizen put Noitotra as Number 5 while Grimm was number 6 if Grimm was stronger, he might be faster but Noitoras overall ability to beat his opponent has to be over grimms even if its just power and durability and less speed or else those numbers mean nothing, but from what we have seen they mean exactly what they were meant to show.

Unless Ichigo shows us otherwise in the next fight kenpachi still takes this.

[Vizard Hiei]

kenpachis durability, endurance, and strenght would overpower ichigos speed, combat speed, agility and long range fighting in the end

[weasel flare]

no vaizard, kenpachi win. ichigo stated him self that despite the huge pendulum noi was using, noi was still fast, and kenpachi was still keeping up just fine. and if you recall, when ken first apeared, he was able to shunpo behind ichigo from ontop of the huge wall.

vaizard, i think ichigo will win, but not by a landside by far. i think it would still come out the same as the first match.

also i would like to point out that ichigos bankai does not simply make him faster, but makes it much easier to do shunpo

[Vizard Hiei]

the problem for ichigo here is kenpachis strenght, durability and endurance ichigo will have a tough time to try to beat him

[Marlie]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

Marlie, i doubt Aizen put Noitotra as Number 5 while Grimm was number 6 if Grimm was stronger, he might be faster but Noitoras overall ability to beat his opponent has to be over grimms even if its just power and durability and less speed or else those numbers mean nothing, but from what we have seen they mean exactly what they were meant to show.

Unless Ichigo shows us otherwise in the next fight kenpachi still takes this.

It does'nt matter what Aizen thinks. Most of the Espada are all wildcards anyway. Szyael and Zomari can easily trump most of the Espada but yet they are low numbers. Numbers don't mean shit and what Aizen ranks them as does'nt mean shit. Grim could whoop Nnoitora and Ichigo sure as hell whoops the shit outta Ken...he did it before and he'll stomp his ass again.

[GiantMidget]

I doubt it, It was clearly stated that the numbers for the espadas rank how powerful they are.

[Vizard Hiei]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

I doubt it, It was clearly stated that the numbers for the espadas rank how powerful they are.

i guess this would be correct

noitiria stated that grimmjow was weak-noitoria was the 5th espada and grimmjow was the sixth espada

ulquiorria unreleased handled vizard ichigo and he was the 4th espada and vizard ichigo who beat grimmjow

nel was beating up noitoria and was far stronger than noitoria and she was the 3rd espada

my best guess is that the lower the numbers the stronger the espada get

but that does not mean the lower the number the faster, more durable they get as well becuase zommari stated he was the fastest espada yet he was number 7, noitoria stated he was the most durable and he was number 5 so my best guess for this would also be the type of fighting with the lower espada becomes more intense and violent the fighting becomes to the point that it is superior the the other espadas fighting styles

either that the espada are based off of abilties and such but that does not seem to be the point here since lower number espada have dominated higher number espada

[Marlie]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

I doubt it, It was clearly stated that the numbers for the espadas rank how powerful they are.

and that means what? Grim was able to hold his own against Uli long enough to seal him. Going by your logic, Uli should'nt have had any problem stopping Grim. Aizen might rank them by numbers but numbers and rank don't mean shit in mangas like this. We have people that are 3rd seat rank that are Captain level and #8 Espadas capable of wiping out the Bleachverse with enough preptime. Numbers don't mean anything.

[GiantMidget]

Originally Posted by Marlie

and that means what? Grim was able to hold his own against Uli long enough to seal him. Going by your logic, Uli should'nt have had any problem stopping Grim. Aizen might rank them by numbers but numbers and rank don't mean shit in mangas like this. We have people that are 3rd seat rank that are Captain level and #8 Espadas capable of wiping out the Bleachverse with enough preptime. Numbers don't mean anything.

Accord do to number 11 the espadas number do mean something.

[Righteous Judgment]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

And yet Noitora is number 5 i doubt Aizen would make Noitora number 5 and grimm number 6 if Noitoro couldn't beat grimmjow.

Chances are Noitora with his full skillset and tactical use of his abilities could beat GJ but you know what that isn't the noitora we got to see against Ken. Unfortunately Noitora's known feats were unimpressive if Noitora fought like that against Vizard Ichigo or Released GJ he would of gotten his ass kicked.