current ichigo vs current kenpaichi

[GiantMidget]

Speed isn't always everything, Ichigo was faster then Bykuya yet he was still losing until the hollow ichigo stepped in. kenpachi is more certainly stronger now then he was before.

Also Ichigo doesn't have that much potential as you make him seem to have, he merely got to bankai really fast I really don't see any big improvements since then because back then when he fought GJ he never had vaizard mode so all he has improved on since then was vaizard mode and his speed with his bankai isnt so great compared to anyone else anymore as you can just increase your speed with training making your bankai give speed is just a waste of a bankais abilities, all he can do now if just improve his technique, kenpachi is at the level of the 5th espada just by having pure brute power, reatsu and fighting instincts lets see Ichigo with his normal zapactou do that,Ken with bankai he can surpass many other top tier people in bleach.

[Marlie]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

Speed isn't always everything, Ichigo was faster then Bykuya yet he was still losing until the hollow ichigo stepped in. kenpachi is more certainly stronger now then he was before.

Also Ichigo doesn't have that much potential as you make him seem to have, he merely got to bankai really fast I really don't see any big improvements since then because back then when he fought GJ he never had vaizard mode so all he has improved on since then was vaizard mode and his speed with his bankai isnt so great compared to anyone else anymore as you can just increase your speed with training making your bankai give speed is just a waste of a bankais abilities, all he can do now if just improve his technique, kenpachi is at the level of the 5th espada just by having pure brute power, reatsu and fighting instincts lets see Ichigo with his normal zapactou do that,Ken with bankai he can surpass many other top tier people in bleach.

You still have'nt proven it....and Ichigo only slowed down cause his Bankai was breaking his bones. He's overcome that.

How many times do I have to say it? Ichigo is one of the fastest characters in the series but he only gets outshines cause he's fighting opponent always stronger or faster than him. Grim was stronger and faster, Uli was stronger and faster he could have dominated Dordonii with Bankai alone but chose Viazard and Nnoitora attacked him when he was injured. Your not making much sense. Your saying Ichigo has to be the fastest character in the series forever even though there are more powerful enemies that have'nt even appeared yet. Did you just start reading manga? There will always be more powerful opponents. To think that he won't ever be outclassed is ridiculous. He's still fast as shit but his speed pales in comparison with demons like Uli and Grim. Throw Viazard in there and it's game set match.

[IppoSama]

That is kenpachis character though... the guy who wins everything with brute force. Its why everyone slobs his nob, hes the guy who enjoys getting hurt and overpowers opponents with brute force. I doubt he will ever get bankai... unless the story goes for a VERY long time, but the way its looking now i dont expect for ken to get bankai unless this huge battle right now gets stopped somehow and is dragged out or a new villian is introduced.

I agree speed isnt everything but neither is strength. Im sure ken is probably stronger then yama physically but you ask just about anyone and i guarentee theyre going to say yama owns him. Also byakuya didnt beat ichigo.. ichigo beat ichigo. You remember not once but twice he caught byakuya with his pants down. If his point was to kill byakuya and not trying to make a point he would of killed him.

[Ky0uraku]

I'd say that this one goes to Ichigo. I don't doupt that Ken is one of the strongest captains due to raw power and stuff,but he is no stronger than byakuya's level and above. Let's not forget that Ken had the advantage over noitra for he was serious damaged from his fight with nell, hitting him with double cero and her spear(or whatever this was). That doesn't mean that ken is on noitra's level while ichigo struggled so much to beat grimmjow. So i give this to ichigo,without his mask of course, just bankai. Also one more reason why kenpachi beat noitra is because of the similarities they share(both not so fast but with excessive raw power), i frankly don't think that kenpachi would stand a chance against grim who boasts incredible speed as well as huge power.

[kronos]

lets go with the stance that ichigo is faster seeing how him and noi never stood equally for speed comparison since ichi was severely injured. but speed isnt everything since #7 was the fastest but physically weak. with vaizord mode ichi gets a big boost in skill but is that enough to beat a guy who is a natural monster at fighting and fast himself considering that outside of their initial meeting hasnt shown anything suggesting he knows shyunpo and is maxed out in the reitsu department. dont know but unlike the first time ken not getting away with that one handed shit. if his natural swordsmanship transfered over to his kendo then theres a big prob for ichi. BTW GT outside of vaizord m ode wont cut it with ken seeing how grim cero cut it in two and ken backhanded noi's cero.

[Ky0uraku]

yep, speed isn't everything, but we musn't forget that ichigo is a monster in terms of reatsu too, as it has stated many times in the series , a powerhouse like ken. Ichi might not have ken's endurance but this is the only one that doesn't have in comparison to ken(let aside the far greater speed) ^^, cause he has equal or greater nerve and of course equal or greater willpower to win.

[Project #22329]

Kenpachi = strongest captain in 13 Gotei

Ichigo = could've become the 11th squad captain if everything was legal back then

Right we're talking about now!
Full on FULL IMO opinion Ichigo...

Kenpachi:
1st great swordsman
2nd shinigami
3rd captain of a division
4th massive power
5th not too bright

Ichigo:
1st Human
2nd Substitute shinigami
3rd Captain rank, since he already beat a few, BBANKAAAAI!
4th Vaizard
6th Also is strong
7th Has some brain

Going through dimensions/worlds:
Soul Society (Both)
Hecto Mundo (Both)
Real world (Ichigo/both)
Hollow (Ichigo)
Dimension with Ochigi [The building place] (Ichigo)

The former captains/lieutenant vaizards admire his strength. Also had trouble keeping up with him when he was turning. So the power had to come from somewhere even though he wasn't himself there.

Ichigo takes everyone on, many people look up to him for help and help/train him.

Wow I lost my self, but some of my ideas are clear.
IMO in current state Ichigo would win.

Now if Ken learns to release..... well thats another story that will have a clear answer to without any points O.o

[bluewingedD]

^^ dis agree on one thing. The vizard ex captains and vice captains really didn't admire his power. They reconized him as a vizard. and when ichigo came in saying that he'll let them train him, they brung him down a notch by saying we want to see if your actually worth training. So they weren't too impressive by his strength. Second when they fought his fully hollowed out form, all of them were holding back trying not to kill until, they absolutely had to. And it didn't seem like killing him, would have been a difficult chore for them, other then on the a motional level. most of them went against him, without using their vizard powers, or even shakia, you saw one or two of them here are there, when he was fully wilding out.

And the only time the mask was about to be used was when this fully wild out ichigo was going to use a cero, other then that they had viturally no problems. But I will agree, that this fight is stacked in ichigo's favor, if he goes Vizard.

[Project #22329]

Originally Posted by bluewingedD

^^ dis agree on one thing. The vizard ex captains and vice captains really didn't admire his power. They reconized him as a vizard. and when ichigo came in saying that he'll let them train him, they brung him down a notch by saying we want to see if your actually worth training. So they weren't too impressive by his strength. Second when they fought his fully hollowed out form, all of them were holding back trying not to kill until, they absolutely had to. And it didn't seem like killing him, would have been a difficult chore for them, other then on the a motional level. most of them went against him, without using their vizard powers, or even shakia, you saw one or two of them here are there, when he was fully wilding out.

And the only time the mask was about to be used was when this fully wild out ichigo was going to use a cero, other then that they had viturally no problems. But I will agree, that this fight is stacked in ichigo's favor, if he goes Vizard.

Agreed
Though when he unwillingly became a vaizard due to Ochigi
He was a problem for them to deal with... That girl almost pissed her pants, they all had to stop him as I remember.

[bluewingedD]

I don't recall what you're talking about.

[Project #22329]

This is what I was talking about...
I've never seen Hiyori so afraid.

[GiantMidget]

Hiyori was a Lt. before, her power fails in comparison to the ex-captains of the group, her beign scared of an out of control vaizard ichigo isnt that strange

[bluewingedD]

She doesn't look so much scared as she is surprised/pissed off. But even still, she is the weakest in the group, and pretty much crushes ichigo every time they fight.

And I doubt all of them where needed to stop ichigo, it was just a reflex, if you see your friend in trouble you run to help. Kind of like when All the jounin went to restrain Neji from killing Hinata, all of them weren't needed, but it was just a reflex from the lot of them.

And it could be clearly seen that they all weren't needed, when ichigo underwent the full hollowrization, that was no doubt stronger then the ichigo you showed, and everyone who went in there against him, pretty much plated around with him. Hell one of the Ex-captain Vizards blow off one of his arms by mistake.

[Project #22329]

Why so seriousssss? :}
You like joker, yet you go with if?

I didnt say they were all needed but it happened and its a fact...

Lol plated?
They kept saying if they're not careful he'll kill them.
Lisa took damage, she left her shift with wounds.
So did Kensei and Love.
I'm 100% sure they didn't go all out, but they didnt take it too easy...

Mistake...?
Kensei blew off his arm on purpose...

As for Neji LMAO!!!

This was so long ago that I had to go back and look.
Gai: "STFU NEJI"
Kakashi: "Give me your hand" I have a treat I'll give you a cookie... *Reaches in his pocket*
Kurenai: "Oooooh! He dropped something!"
Hayate: He probably knows how to control the seal?
Hinata: "I want a cookie too, I'm starving!"

[bluewingedD]

Lisa took damage, but she also wasn't Vizarded, or shikai-ed out either, and was trying not to kill him. So that's a pretty big handy cape, whileing up against soemthing like that, and she still managed, to keep him at bay.