Enel vs. Everyone

[Luffy]

1) He can read the minds of the users that are attacking, and know that they are going to use illusion techniques. Basically he can know when and in what way his opponents will attack, and what techniques they will use. It should not be too hard to avoid something if you know 100% sure what it is and when it's coming. The only way he gets trapped is if a bunch of genjutsu users gang up on him and he has no way of avoiding every one of their attacks. Problem is, there's not that many strong genjutsu users in Naruto...Itachi,Sasuke,The frogs, who else has used really strong Genjutsu in Naruto? He should not have trouble avoiding a couple of fighters with 100% predetermined techniques giving his speed and his usual defenses. Satori, one of Enel's underlings which much much weaker mantra, was able to avoid the attacks of Sanji, Ussop, and Luffy for a long ass time without much trouble.

Also, Genjutsu works by targetting your brain or what not, if he is in his pure lightning form, he is essentially a mass of pure energy, like a bunch of the marvel and DC superheroes that are just composed of controled energy. In his logia form he has no human body parts, so he has no brain for which genjutsu can target, therefore if he justs stays in his logia form he has nothing to fear from it as it won't affect him.

In this scan:

One Piece 264 page 12 | One Manga

You can see that a solid object is going through his brain, so that settles the argument of weather he does have a brain in logia form, with no brain, how can genjutsu affect him?

2) How can someone burn you or chop you up if you're pure energy to begin with? Look at some of the scans that C.Hook posted, people cut him in half, stabbed him, used a 'burning sword' against him, used blunt force, did anything...nothing worked, he's a mass of pure lighting energy, he's immune to any kind of attack.

These are the only ways he can be hurt

1) If by some form or fashion he is trapped in Genjutsu and is forced to turn off his logia powers and become a normal human. That's the only when you can cut him him up.

-We've already dealed with the fact that genjutsu has very long odds of working agains enel due to the fact that he has pre-cog, and further by the fact that genjutsu can't work on him anyways when's he's in logia mode.

2) If you use rubber against him, canceling out his powers as long as rubber is in contact with his body part.

-Rubber suit lol? This method is not viable in Naruto

3) If you submerge him in water, thus canceling his abilities.

-This is really the only viable method I see. You can have a bunch of suiton users like Kisame, suigetsu, the 1st (or the second??), etc try to get his body under total submission of water. Howerver, Enel has lot's of ways to avoid this also. One) he can fly...kind of hard to submerge someone when he's in the sky... Two) He can teleport and travel at speeds of lightning. Again, kind of hard to submerge someone in water when they are that fast, and Three) He's got pre-cog, he'll know everything that his opponents try beforehand, nuff said...

Originally Posted by IppoSama

and you missed the point... the point was the kirin did NOTHING to itachi.. your man has a max limit of 200 million volts, i told you nature can produce 5 times that, i dont care whats in the book i took the maximum and applied that. Since sasuke used NATURE for his attack, the attack could infact be STRONGER. Also size isnt everything Many many animes where attacks are tiny and are more powerful then the GIANT MEGA BEAM.

First of all, no, Itachi did not shrug off Kirin. He had to use susanoo, his strongest technique to defead against him. A technique that the latest databook stated shortened the life of the user, and therefore a technique that that can't be used continually. Enel can reproduce attacks easily on the level of Kirin and stronger (yes, you can judge by size, when something is many more times it's size and made of pure energy....) Enel has no limits to how many times he can use his attacks, he can easily keep spamming Kirin sized and larger blasts, how long do you think Itachi can keep susanoo on before he is either out of chakra or dies?

And if you still keep on with that silly argument that Enel's power isn't enough...consider this. He was able to use his power to power a machine that concentrated his energy and released it in a huge blast. His attack Raigou, was enough to destroy an island. Enels' concentrated power completley wiped it off the map....While his regular power is not on the level to do something like that casually by miles...it's enough to infer that his attacks pack way more than a punch. He is constantly seen destorying HUGE patches of land of great radious with his most common attacks...

To your other silly, argument that people with lightning nature won't be effected, well now that's just silly. If someone uses a fire attack, but another user a fire attack that is 50 times stronger, I wonder who wins out on that one...

Seriously, the strongers lightning attack in Naruto has been Kirin by far, and that's not even a chakra based moved. Following Kirin, the strongest raiton attack in Naruto has been Kakuzu's thunder attack which was a measly ligthing bolt...Enel has powers by 100 times that magnitude and I'm being modest here. It doens't matter if people have lightning nature, he can easily just overwhelm them with his own power.

Originally Posted by San Goku

You ppl are crazy to think Enel could just take out EVERYONE so easy, theirs genjutsu's theres ki barriers, there is soul sucking shinigami's, like come'on seriously, the 4th can teleport too. Ppl with lightning nature wont have to worry as much and he is in even more trouble with people with water nature. Really we don't even need everyone, I'll leave it to 1,2,3,4 Hokage to take care of him.

Genjutsu-we have already dealed with that.

Barriers- lol, show me a single barrier feat in Naruto that can stop one of Enel's massive attacks.

Soul Sucking- The only time we have seen this either a) there was physical contact with the opponent (both pains), b) the opponent was compltely imobilized and it required serious preptime (sandaime).

Neither of which are feaseble against Enel...

Lightning Nature argument- silly argument has been debunked. Refer to the upper parts of my post.

4ths Hokage- We have no idea what this guy can do, only that he can teleport...What can teleporting do against an imaterial form of energy again?

Anything else you might want to add?

[GiantMidget]

Guys he starts off in middle Konoha, its not millions of ninjas against him all at once.

Also You guys say that Itachi defended against lighting bolt but how many times can he do that? Seriously defending it one or more times isnt gonna do anything except waste their energy. Enel shoots lightning like a ninja punches.

Enel doesnt have chakra, no chakra=no genjutsu.

[San Goku]

Anything else you might want to add?

Ya you didn't mention how Enel will handle high level ocean attacks from the 1st hokage.

Enel doesnt have chakra, no chakra=no genjutsu

I always hated this statement, everyone has chakra its just called something else in their respected anime universe.

[IppoSama]

first off.. theyre other substances that dont conduct electricity that well that arent rubber....
2. hes not facing a COUPLE of fighters.. he is facing EVERY SINGLE NINJA in the narutoverse... he would never be facing just a few ppl, i promise the thoughts of thousands , even millions of ninjas attacking will get pretty stressing. Also Genjutsu will affect you if you have thoughts period ( depending on the genjutsu) and the genjutsu the frogs use is sound based if he heard it thats a wrap aswell. So i dont get youre "ALL GENJUTSU IS WORTHLESS" nonsense from.

3. Just from the scans ive seen this guy isnt afraid of anything and enjoys mocking his opponents. they dont need to turn off his logia form, he would do it himself. But moving on , im sure itachi and sasuke are not the only ppl in the naruto verse who have attacks that are described as UNAVOIDABLE. The speed of lightning is very fast indeed, but a normal human being ( albeit he was one of the most powerful ninja weve seen in naruto) was able to summon up his most powerful techniques in the time it took a lightning bolt to hit him for the sky . Sure he susanoo shortens life spand but were talking a healthy itachi where he can stand to burn up some of his life since its one fight. You have pains body who up to this point has absorbed every jutsus thrown his way , why couldnt he absorb lightning?

You took Water jutsus out of the equation because he can fly? Sorry to burst your bubble but you cant base that off of the 3 or 4 ninja that have used water techinques so far... im sure theyre thousands who can use it and could back up the elites with their own water jutsu.

Look i know you LOVE OP , you can tell just by the way you type. Im not even saying the narutoverse would win, but it definitely wouldnt be a curbstomping on the level youre putting it. Having thousands and thousands of ninja attack he wouldnt even be able to tell which ones were fodder and which ones were the elite. Lastly so many ninjas with ablities unknown to us, biggest case n point was the 8 tails, he came out of no where and CURBSTOMPED sasuke(who was considered at the time as a top 10 narutoverse ninja) and his little ninja crew with little effort..(oh and he said his older brother beats him).

[Marlie]

Fuck you whoever deleted my post. Susanoo is summoned and Enel can do what. Nothing but get fucking sealed away. Mirror reflects everything sword is capable of cutting immaterial things. That and Mankeyo fucks his world up. Even Enel was arrogant enough to let Luffy get a free lick on him. Against the whole Narutoverse all they needs is one good lick and he's either burned to nothing, sealed in the stomach of a Death God or sealed in Susanoo.

[LunarWolfX]

Originally Posted by IppoSama

first off.. theyre other substances that dont conduct electricity that well that arent rubber....
2. hes not facing a COUPLE of fighters.. he is facing EVERY SINGLE NINJA in the narutoverse... he would never be facing just a few ppl, i promise the thoughts of thousands , even millions of ninjas attacking will get pretty stressing. Also Genjutsu will affect you if you have thoughts period ( depending on the genjutsu) and the genjutsu the frogs use is sound based if he heard it thats a wrap aswell. So i dont get youre "ALL GENJUTSU IS WORTHLESS" nonsense from.

the specifics of genjutsu is that it TARGETS the chakra flow in the brain. Granted for the sake of battle one piece characters have chakra circulatory systems, but regardless, once they're in their logia forms, they are intangible. Unless you're implying that they somehow retain their anatomical structure while separated into billions of particles, "ALL GENJUTSU IS WORTHLESS".

You took Water jutsus out of the equation because he can fly? Sorry to burst your bubble but you cant base that off of the 3 or 4 ninja that have used water techinques so far... im sure theyre thousands who can use it and could back up the elites with their own water jutsu.

You missed his point. It's not water jutsus, it's submerging him in water. How in gods name can you submerge a flying person in water. Actually, should I say, a flying person, who can leave the atmosphere whenever he wants. You're telling me ninjas can shoot water jutsu all the way to the moon, and create a body of water accurately enough to submerge him in it, and keep it suspended in the air long enough for him to drown?

[IppoSama]

a brain is needed for thought, unless hes is similar to a cockroach. So unless he just goes into a haze when in lightning form and it has a mind of its own and acts on instinct , brain waves are still active if brainwaves are still around i would assume they can be attacked. As for leaving the atomsphere if he can attack from there, sure he wins and the thread needs to be closed. But if thats just a way to escape it really has no barring on the battle.

Lastly weve seen some insane combos, can you imagine the 1 and 2nd hokage, kakuzu, shark man ( my god i cant remember his name) kakashi, zabuza, and all the water based ninja working together combining there water attacks on the single goal of getting this one man doused and imprisoned in water... and those are the ninja we know, theyre countless ninja who maybe be on the level of those ninja or a little weaker i just mentioned when it comes to water techniques.

[GiantMidget]

Originally Posted by IppoSama

a brain is needed for thought, unless hes is similar to a cockroach. So unless he just goes into a haze when in lightning form and it has a mind of its own and acts on instinct , brain waves are still active if brainwaves are still around i would assume they can be attacked. As for leaving the atomsphere if he can attack from there, sure he wins and the thread needs to be closed. But if thats just a way to escape it really has no barring on the battle.

Lastly weve seen some insane combos, can you imagine the 1 and 2nd hokage, kakuzu, shark man ( my god i cant remember his name) kakashi, zabuza, and all the water based ninja working together combining there water attacks on the single goal of getting this one man doused and imprisoned in water... and those are the ninja we know, theyre countless ninja who maybe be on the level of those ninja or a little weaker i just mentioned when it comes to water techniques.

Genjutsu doesn't attack brain waves, it manipulates the chakra in thebrain and cunfusest he nerves unless his logia powers are not working his body isnt even composed of nerves.

Enel starts off in konoha he isnt fighting all the millions of ninjas ever. If pain who is nothing comapred to Enel can cause such damage to the village and all he can do is summon a bunch of animals, why can't enel especially if he isnt fighting everyoen at once.

Itachi can block the lightinng but how many times before he goes blind? because his lightning isnt limited to once like Sasukes.

Only Sea water causes them to lose power, What makes you think the seconds or any of their attacks are sea water?

[Ravi]

Let´s not forget the fact Gai is wearing a rubber suit.

[Luffy]

Originally Posted by IppoSama

first off.. theyre other substances that dont conduct electricity that well that arent rubber....

Which are? More importantly, how would Naruto ninja use them in battle?

2. hes not facing a COUPLE of fighters.. he is facing EVERY SINGLE NINJA in the narutoverse... he would never be facing just a few ppl, i promise the thoughts of thousands , even millions of ninjas attacking will get pretty stressing.

Yeah it would, but nontheless he still has pre-cog. Plus, be be realistic. The setting is in the middle of Konoha, do millions of ninja fit in a whole a battlefield the size of konoha? I'm not sure weather the fight was set up so he takes everyone on at the same time, or he just pops up randomly and goes killing everyone that he crosses by since the OP wasn't clear, but in either case he should the advantage.

Scenario 1 where it's everyone against him at once

In this case, it's not that big of an advantage for the narutoverse folk, in fact it actuallly works against them. He starts in konoha, there's no way so many ninja can fit there so the battle is spread out through all the suroundings. Plus, he can even blend in with all the people. If there are thousands of folks in the battlefield, given Enel's telportation, pre-cog, and speed he can easily go around them and start taking care of the fodder first, then if corned by a bunch of folks, just bail to another place. He's faster than anyone in the narutoverse by far except if someone has instant teleport which only the 4th has and we don't even't know the limits of that technique.

Scenario 2, he pops up in Konoha and decides to attack anyone randomly

In this scenario he has an even easier time since he just has to fight a group of people at a time at most, the number of people depending on how much rukus he cause in his fights and how much attention he attracts. Nontheless, the smaller the number the sooner he can dispose of them and move on the next group of folks.

Also Genjutsu will affect you if you have thoughts period ( depending on the genjutsu) and the genjutsu the frogs use is sound based if he heard it thats a wrap aswell. So i dont get youre "ALL GENJUTSU IS WORTHLESS" nonsense from.

No sorry, that's your own fabrication. You need a brain for genjutsu to work. Also, beings of pure energy that still retain conciousness are popular in fiction, and are present in many a series like in american comics, and also in OP. Enel has no brain for genjtusu to effect when he's intagible, he's just a mass of energy.

3. Just from the scans ive seen this guy isnt afraid of anything and enjoys mocking his opponents. they dont need to turn off his logia form, he would do it himself.

What makes you think this? Even given his personality, I don't recall him every turning his power off in any of his battles. In fact, if there is one thing he fears the most is someone countering his power. He shat a brick when he found out luffy was immune to him.

But moving on , im sure itachi and sasuke are not the only ppl in the naruto verse who have attacks that are described as UNAVOIDABLE.

Unavoidable attacks are nothing if the attacks cause no damage to a target. Again Enel is a mass of pure energy, how are physical attacks supposed to harm him again? on TOP of this, he can read minds....

Seems like a preety good defense to me.

Why don't you start by naming some of these unavoidable attacks and how they'll work against Enel and we got from there?

Also, people that have not made an apperance in the manga do not count. Sorry, but saying 'oh there's bound to be people in the narutoverse that can do this and that...'' is an invalid argument since we have no way to quantify feats.

The speed of lightning is very fast indeed, but a normal human being ( albeit he was one of the most powerful ninja weve seen in naruto) was able to summon up his most powerful techniques in the time it took a lightning bolt to hit him for the sky . Sure he susanoo shortens life spand but were talking a healthy itachi where he can stand to burn up some of his life since its one fight. You have pains body who up to this point has absorbed every jutsus thrown his way , why couldnt he absorb lightning?

Again, Enel does not run out of chakra, he can keep spamming attacks for weeks on end if he wants to. Susanowo is described as an ultimate technique that shortens your life, and must take a hell of a lot of chakra to use. Maybe Itachi will thwarts a few attack that way but up to how long can he use it? Even if fullly healthy there's bound to be a limit to it in either health or chakra he has, Enel has all the time in the world.

Fat pain seems interesting, yet I can think of a million ways to counter his technique. We've seen that his powers take time to fully absorb an attack. How much time will it take to absrob a HUGE attack, at the very least a couple of minutes right? While he's absorbing attacks, Enel can easilly teleport behind him or above him or whatnot, and take him out with a multitude of other attacks.

You took Water jutsus out of the equation because he can fly? Sorry to burst your bubble but you cant base that off of the 3 or 4 ninja that have used water techinques so far... im sure theyre thousands who can use it and could back up the elites with their own water jutsu.

I didn't take them out of the equation, I said the conditions are going to be very tought to meet for suiton users. They have to submerge him in water to make sure he can't go anywhere and his powers are fully cancled. Enel can read minds so it makes he can tell when and how the attacks are coming, he's faster than anyone fighting against him by several times over, probably even 100s of times faster. He can fly to avoid most of the water attacks which usually originate in the ground, and in addition, so far water attacks seem to be slower than other element attacks such as lightning and wind, they seem to be big waves or floods and such. It seems to me like the odds are way stacked against the suiton users give than Enel has a lot of tools at his disposal to counter thei

Originally Posted by Marlie

Fuck you whoever deleted my post. Susanoo is summoned and Enel can do what. Nothing but get fucking sealed away. Mirror reflects everything sword is capable of cutting immaterial things. That and Mankeyo fucks his world up. Even Enel was arrogant enough to let Luffy get a free lick on him. Against the whole Narutoverse all they needs is one good lick and he's either burned to nothing, sealed in the stomach of a Death God or sealed in Susanoo.

Enel can just wait it out if anything. That monster attack takes chakra, and slowly kills the user. For how long do you think Itachi will be able to uphold that attack?

As far as getting selead, it shoulb be no problem as long as he keeps his distence. Susanowo does not use any fast ranged attacks as far as I remeber. We alfready established that genutsu is useless in this battle, so magenkyo does nothing.

The only way I see him getting traped or sealed by Itachi is if Enel is arrogant enough to let itachi get a free hit...It seems to me like that's grasping at straws if an entire verse has to rely on a character flaw of their opponent to beat him rather than on their own power...

Ya you didn't mention how Enel will handle high level ocean attacks from the 1st hokage

I mentioned hoe Enel deals with water user on multiple occasion already so I don't know where you're comming from.

[GiantMidget]

Water teqniques would only benefit Enel because they won't hit him and if the whole place is wet, he can take out everyone at once.

[Luffy]

Only Sea water causes them to lose power, What makes you think the seconds or any of their attacks are sea water?
__________________

Actually, oda stated that all water will cause them to loose powers as long as they are submerged.

[Ravi]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

What about his head? Enels attacks are big enough to engulf entire bodies.

That's true.

But are you serious? No chakra = no Genjutsu? Sauce me?

If so, Narutocamp is pretty fucked =p

[GiantMidget]

Originally Posted by Ravi

That's true.

But are you serious? No chakra = no Genjutsu? Sauce me?

If so, Narutocamp is pretty fucked =p

Chakra or not, Enel doesnt have a tangible brain or body for the genjutsu users to manipulate the chakra so that it confuses the nerves.

@Apoo- I remember something about seastone weapons emitting the energy of seawater or something that's why it cripples devil fruit users So I Assume that it was the properties of seawater that does it. Never read that interview either

[Ravi]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

Chakra or not, Enel doesnt have a tangible brain or body for the genjutsu users to manipulate the chakra so that it confuses the nerves.

@Apoo- I remember something about seastone weapons emitting the energy of seawater or something that's why it cripples devil fruit users So I Assume that it was the properties of seawater that does it. Never read that interview either

I don't think the Narutoverse would have the seastone bullshit. But eventually somebody must accidentally use seawater on the Enel. That'd probably be pretty effective. And yeah, let's consider the fact Enel's from the OP-verse, which means he won't know shit what to do with his god-mode powers. Admit it, he'll be running and walking around in his material form, with the tangible brain (like he did ALL the time in One Piece) and be susceptible to Genjutsu =/

It's retarded, but he'll do it. Like in the same way characters never exploit the sheer HAX some skills are.

His inability to see his own possabilities will be his demise ...

[Luffy]

Admit it, he'll be running and walking around in his material form, with the tangible brain (like he did ALL the time in One Piece) and be susceptible to Genjutsu =/

When was that again? He'd always had his powers on as far as I remeber

Recal that logias don't necessary change their form when they turn into their elements. For example, enel was pierced in the head in logia mode yet his whole body kept his human form

[Holy Cowboy]

Didn't read the whole thread, only caught the last few posts.

Giantmidget, the weapon is what Smoker uses. Contact with it is like contact with seawater, yada yada. it's why smoker uses gloves.

@everyone suggesting water jutsus galore. You guys do realise that water conducts electricity right? Powerful enough electricity can overrun any insulator.