Georgia attempts to retake South Ossetia - Page 3

Bradjune1980 · 12-08-2008, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAILTIME

Because Georgia resorted to violent means first Russia has enough of a legitimate "peacekeeping" excuse to be there.

I think anyone would have known that Georgia moving on Ossetia would have brought them in conflict with Russia and they did it anyway now you want a bunch of surrounding nations to plunge their people into what could very well become WW3? I think your being a bit premature by calling puttin the next hitler here.

Fact Ossetia is not Russia, its part of Georgia, its citizens live there that do not align themselves with Ossetia. It was a part of of georgia before the russian invasion of 1992, it was with the help of russia that it was propped up the same as the weastern provice.

Georgia has every right to control its own lands. But its the Russians that keep stealing land from them.

Yes putin is just like Hitler with similar reasoning for invading, the same as how hitler invaded poland.

And its still not clear as to whom fired the first shot. Even so Georgia would never stand a chance against Russia. And the response is out of proportion to the supposed instigation. Not to mention that they are invading georgia proper. And everyone is giving russia a pass on its aggression.

1991â€“1992 South Ossetia War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^looks like Russian made things worse, I wonder why. When it just started out as any country sending in its national guard to qell riots and criminal action. Russia also helped the other break away group and causing the 250000 georgians to be forced out of their land in which they were the majority group.

I just cant fathom how people are ok with Russia instigating civil wars and ethnic hate, and then coming in like they are the hero's of the day.

zshortysmall · 12-08-2008, 05:45 AM

I'm more worried about how McCain reacted to this.
He basically wants to attack Russia.
We escaped WWIII when the USSR collapsed. We shouldn't try to start it again.

Bradjune1980 · 12-08-2008, 06:03 AM

^ How does asking for a ceasfire = war?

“Russian President Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin must understand the severe, long-term negative consequences that their government’s actions will have for Russia’s relationship with the U.S. and Europe," said McCain Monday, advocating a tough diplomatic approach.

Despite Russian veto power, McCain called for a continued US effort to bring a ceasefire resolution before the United Nations Security Council and revisit the decision to make Georgia a member of the NATO alliance.

McCain said that NATO leaders initial rejection of Georgia may have been viewed as a "green light" for Russia to launch an attack, and that European allies and Ukrainian leaders must also take steps to secure that country's Independence.

"Our united purpose should be to persuade the Russian government to cease its attacks, withdraw its troops, and enter into negotiations with Georgia. We must remind Russia’s leaders that the benefits they enjoy from being part of the civilized world require their respect for the values, stability and peace of that world," said McCain.

^ I see what you mean he totally advocates invasion/war here.

I mean who uses words like Ceasefire that can totally be taken the wrong way.

flame16 · 12-08-2008, 06:26 AM

I've spent my day watching CNN inbetween role-playing posts and whenever they speak about the Russia and Georgia problem they complain about how the congress and house have taken a break. Then they play reports of John McCain asking that congress returns from their vacation or rather "break". They have no word from Obama who is on vacation in Hawaii at a time like this. President Bush has said he will not call congress back but rather continue with his meetings and communications to Russia's Ambassador to have a Cease Fire. Seriously why is congress on a break at a time like this

.

krozar · 12-08-2008, 07:44 AM

Georgia is not as innocent as they seem to be. They have been playing up their image to the US and their 2k troop investment in Iraq was just that, an investment because they knew this day would come.

Both sides take blame in this sort of very common occurrence. When one ethnic group finds themselves behind the borders of a country ran by another ethic group. Soon as the area loses a strong leader that keeps the peace such as Tito did in Yugoslavia, then shit hits the fan. I guarantee you, Ethnic Serbs were being oppressed and slaughtered in Kosovo. But the media and the US always has to pick a side. "ohh those poor ethnic Albanians!" Fucking please. Albanians are infamous in Eastern Europe for the shit they pull all the time.

This all goes back to Yeltsin policy of sudden and abrupt neglect. A transition is needed. Just like China's transition which really started in 1976 when Mao died. Despite being China's mega super hero, their government was quick to remove any trace of his policies and Mao's top guys, assassinating them shortly after his death. Despite its problems, they handled things far better to modernize and move from extreme socialism and isolation.

Russia on the other hand really messed it up. Putin is largely trying to retroactively fix what Yeltsin broke.

Russia is known for its tough tactics, but dammit, it works. If it wasn't for a certain country's involvement in Afghanistan, then it would probably be a much better country and all the bullshit with the Taliban would have never happened. Believe it or not, some Afghans liked Soviet occupation. They were modernizing, building roads, building schools. and kicking out extremists.

Russia is tough in a tough world. On the other hand, America is often naïve in a tough world.

GaaranGaara · 12-08-2008, 05:02 PM

A Georgian man who is living in Finland was interviewed on Finnish TV. I was listening only partially. But it seemed as if his message was that if Georgia is taken and Russia won't get stopped then other countries including Finland will be next.

Surely he was just trying to get attention and beg for help to his country, but it still got me thinking. What if...

I'm getting paranoid.

Frostbitten · 12-08-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krozar

Russia is known for its tough tactics, but dammit, it works. If it wasn't for a certain country's involvement in Afghanistan, then it would probably be a much better country and all the bullshit with the Taliban would have never happened. Believe it or not, some Afghans liked Soviet occupation. They were modernizing, building roads, building schools. and kicking out extremists.

You are right about some Afghans liking the Soviet occupation, however Afganistan was in the middle of modernization before the Soviets came in. With things such as Discos within their territory. In reality, the Soviet occupation of Afghan screwed up a lot of things in this world.

Gathan · 12-08-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zshortysmall

I'm more worried about how McCain reacted to this.
He basically wants to attack Russia.
We escaped WWIII when the USSR collapsed. We shouldn't try to start it again.

Agreed, but the current aggression of Russia to basically take over Georgia is not a good sign.
Georgia has already agreed to a cease fire, Russia however are declining to do so, even when its most evident that Georgia stands absolutely no chance in hell of surviving.
If this continues to escalation, Russia as well as the rest of the world are entering into a new more dangerous time.
I would hate to be Russia's neighboring countries right, definitely be looking at them with a very weary eye.
Cause this could be the start of the rebirth of USSR or some shit like that.

Bradjune1980 · 12-08-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaaranGaara

A Georgian man who is living in Finland was interviewed on Finnish TV. I was listening only partially. But it seemed as if his message was that if Georgia is taken and Russia won't get stopped then other countries including Finland will be next.

Surely he was just trying to get attention and beg for help to his country, but it still got me thinking. What if...

I'm getting paranoid.

My dad said the same thing, his Doctorate is in history and its what he teaches, well did until he retired. And Russia has always had its eye on its neighbors to the west. He even said if they dont stop them here, Ukraine and Finland had better be careful. Not to mention all the satellite states.

BTW Russia is still advancing into georgia and is now demanding the president step down. So now its about regime change and destabilizing the elected government. Not peacekeeping. No matter how many ceasefires have been offered.

GaaranGaara · 12-08-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradjune1980

My dad said the same thing, his Doctorate is in history and its what he teaches, well did until he retired. And Russia has always had its eye on its neighbors to the west. He even said if they dont stop them here, Ukraine and Finland had better be careful. Not to mention all the satellite states.

However, I do have faith in international support if Ukraine & Finland were to be attacked. (By this I mean UK, Germany, France and maybe others)

I don't think european countries would want Russia devouring nations one by one.

Though I might be wrong and nobody gives a rats ass what happens to Ukraine & Finland.

Bradjune1980 · 12-08-2008, 06:45 PM

^ Im sure Russia still thinks of Finland as part of its country since Alexander I conquered it and made it a duchy. But it has the safety net of being part of the EU.

The invasion of georgia happened at a the key time to derail the talks of joining NATO, which the Georgians were seeking to protect themselves from Russia. Since Russia has been destabalizing them for years.

The interest in it for Russia is all the pipelines the travel through that country. Not to mention it was where Stalin came from.

Righteous Judgment · 12-08-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradjune1980

Fact Ossetia is not Russia, its part of Georgia, its citizens live there that do not align themselves with Ossetia. It was a part of of georgia before the russian invasion of 1992, it was with the help of russia that it was propped up the same as the weastern provice.

Georgia has every right to control its own lands. But its the Russians that keep stealing land from them.

Yes putin is just like Hitler with similar reasoning for invading, the same as how hitler invaded poland.

And its still not clear as to whom fired the first shot. Even so Georgia would never stand a chance against Russia. And the response is out of proportion to the supposed instigation. Not to mention that they are invading georgia proper. And everyone is giving russia a pass on its aggression.

1991â€“1992 South Ossetia War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^looks like Russian made things worse, I wonder why. When it just started out as any country sending in its national guard to qell riots and criminal action. Russia also helped the other break away group and causing the 250000 georgians to be forced out of their land in which they were the majority group.

I just cant fathom how people are ok with Russia instigating civil wars and ethnic hate, and then coming in like they are the hero's of the day.

Hmm you have a good point but Georgia can't expect to upset a decade and a half old status quo unscathed faced with the alternatives and the most likely results of military action on the part of georgia against an area with any kind of agreement with russia Georgia should have just stayed the fuck out now they have opened the door to more than just losing the already lost Ossetia

Bradjune1980 · 12-08-2008, 11:13 PM

^ so if a squatter moved into your shed and lived there for ten years cause your neighbor said he could while pointing a gun at you. And one day you say thats it im putting an end to this bullshit so you go out there to take back what is yours. Only to have your neighbor tell you it belongs to the squatter now even though you pay taxes on it and he starts shooting at you then charges into your house and says the first floor of your house belongs to him now. you would be ok with it.

zshortysmall · 13-08-2008, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradjune1980

^ How does asking for a ceasfire = war?

“Russian President Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin must understand the severe, long-term negative consequences that their government’s actions will have for Russia’s relationship with the U.S. and Europe," said McCain Monday, advocating a tough diplomatic approach.

Despite Russian veto power, McCain called for a continued US effort to bring a ceasefire resolution before the United Nations Security Council and revisit the decision to make Georgia a member of the NATO alliance.

McCain said that NATO leaders initial rejection of Georgia may have been viewed as a "green light" for Russia to launch an attack, and that European allies and Ukrainian leaders must also take steps to secure that country's Independence.

"Our united purpose should be to persuade the Russian government to cease its attacks, withdraw its troops, and enter into negotiations with Georgia. We must remind Russia’s leaders that the benefits they enjoy from being part of the civilized world require their respect for the values, stability and peace of that world," said McCain.

^ I see what you mean he totally advocates invasion/war here.

I mean who uses words like Ceasefire that can totally be taken the wrong way.

We've heard different quotes or seen different clips.

Righteous Judgment · 13-08-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradjune1980

^ so if a squatter moved into your shed and lived there for ten years cause your neighbor said he could while pointing a gun at you. And one day you say thats it im putting an end to this bullshit so you go out there to take back what is yours. Only to have your neighbor tell you it belongs to the squatter now even though you pay taxes on it and he starts shooting at you then charges into your house and says the first floor of your house belongs to him now. you would be ok with it.

It would be more like the entire street said that the man with the gun could squat there and if the entire street is gonna back him up and no outside authority is going to step in then you better believe I alone am not gonna do anything to incur the wrath of the whole damn street.

Bradjune1980 · 13-08-2008, 01:13 AM

^ so dont stand up for your rights or yourself.

Kinda like letting the nazis take away all those people to camps mentality.

Quote:

We've heard different quotes or seen different clips.

^source's or it didn't happen.

Righteous Judgment · 13-08-2008, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradjune1980

^ so dont stand up for your rights or yourself.

Kinda like letting the nazis take away all those people to camps mentality.

^source's or it didn't happen.

More like know your role before you give someone with power the excuse to obliterate you.

This world is no damned utopia, this world is a down right dystopia but it isn't a hell on earth so don't give others the excuse to make life for you hell on earth.

With as much land shifting that has occured over the centuries you really think re seizing Ossetia is worth this result?

Russia is now unlikely to leave this military assault without taking a piece of the Georgian pie which may set off WW3 which will truely be hell on earth for a whole lot of people if the last World Wars are any indication.

12-08-2008, 05:45 AM	#42
zshortysmall Medical-nin Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: By the time you find me, it'll be too late Posts: 813 Rep Power: 9	Re: Georgia attempts to retake South Ossetia I'm more worried about how McCain reacted to this. He basically wants to attack Russia. We escaped WWIII when the USSR collapsed. We shouldn't try to start it again. __________________

12-08-2008, 06:03 AM	#43
Bradjune1980 Special Jounin Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Moving to Florida soon! Posts: 3,384 My Mood: Rep Power: 20 Total Awards: 2	Re: Georgia attempts to retake South Ossetia ^ How does asking for a ceasfire = war? “Russian President Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin must understand the severe, long-term negative consequences that their government’s actions will have for Russia’s relationship with the U.S. and Europe," said McCain Monday, advocating a tough diplomatic approach. Despite Russian veto power, McCain called for a continued US effort to bring a ceasefire resolution before the United Nations Security Council and revisit the decision to make Georgia a member of the NATO alliance. McCain said that NATO leaders initial rejection of Georgia may have been viewed as a "green light" for Russia to launch an attack, and that European allies and Ukrainian leaders must also take steps to secure that country's Independence. "Our united purpose should be to persuade the Russian government to cease its attacks, withdraw its troops, and enter into negotiations with Georgia. We must remind Russia’s leaders that the benefits they enjoy from being part of the civilized world require their respect for the values, stability and peace of that world," said McCain. ^ I see what you mean he totally advocates invasion/war here. I mean who uses words like Ceasefire that can totally be taken the wrong way. __________________ http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/in...itle=Main_Page Go here to read japanese light novels. They are the source of many of the shows you love. Last edited by Bradjune1980; 12-08-2008 at 06:04 AM.

12-08-2008, 06:26 AM	#44
flame16 ANBU Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New York Posts: 1,021 My Mood: Rep Power: 8	Re: Georgia attempts to retake South Ossetia I've spent my day watching CNN inbetween role-playing posts and whenever they speak about the Russia and Georgia problem they complain about how the congress and house have taken a break. Then they play reports of John McCain asking that congress returns from their vacation or rather "break". They have no word from Obama who is on vacation in Hawaii at a time like this. President Bush has said he will not call congress back but rather continue with his meetings and communications to Russia's Ambassador to have a Cease Fire. Seriously why is congress on a break at a time like this . __________________ Last edited by flame16; 12-08-2008 at 06:38 AM.

12-08-2008, 07:44 AM	#45
krozar Absolut Krozar Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The land of SEXIST email hackers. Posts: 16,152 My Mood: Rep Power: 164 Total Awards: 4	Re: Georgia attempts to retake South Ossetia Georgia is not as innocent as they seem to be. They have been playing up their image to the US and their 2k troop investment in Iraq was just that, an investment because they knew this day would come. Both sides take blame in this sort of very common occurrence. When one ethnic group finds themselves behind the borders of a country ran by another ethic group. Soon as the area loses a strong leader that keeps the peace such as Tito did in Yugoslavia, then shit hits the fan. I guarantee you, Ethnic Serbs were being oppressed and slaughtered in Kosovo. But the media and the US always has to pick a side. "ohh those poor ethnic Albanians!" Fucking please. Albanians are infamous in Eastern Europe for the shit they pull all the time. This all goes back to Yeltsin policy of sudden and abrupt neglect. A transition is needed. Just like China's transition which really started in 1976 when Mao died. Despite being China's mega super hero, their government was quick to remove any trace of his policies and Mao's top guys, assassinating them shortly after his death. Despite its problems, they handled things far better to modernize and move from extreme socialism and isolation. Russia on the other hand really messed it up. Putin is largely trying to retroactively fix what Yeltsin broke. Russia is known for its tough tactics, but dammit, it works. If it wasn't for a certain country's involvement in Afghanistan, then it would probably be a much better country and all the bullshit with the Taliban would have never happened. Believe it or not, some Afghans liked Soviet occupation. They were modernizing, building roads, building schools. and kicking out extremists. Russia is tough in a tough world. On the other hand, America is often naïve in a tough world. __________________ Maka sees what you did there!

12-08-2008, 05:02 PM	#46
GaaranGaara Genin Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 151 My Mood: Rep Power: 2	Re: Georgia attempts to retake South Ossetia A Georgian man who is living in Finland was interviewed on Finnish TV. I was listening only partially. But it seemed as if his message was that if Georgia is taken and Russia won't get stopped then other countries including Finland will be next. Surely he was just trying to get attention and beg for help to his country, but it still got me thinking. What if... I'm getting paranoid. __________________ Proud owner of the Death Magnetic -Album *A.K.A RoP* "Forgive me...Forgive me not...Forgive me...Forgive me not" Last edited by GaaranGaara; 12-08-2008 at 05:03 PM.

12-08-2008, 06:45 PM	#51
Bradjune1980 Special Jounin Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Moving to Florida soon! Posts: 3,384 My Mood: Rep Power: 20 Total Awards: 2	Re: Georgia attempts to retake South Ossetia ^ Im sure Russia still thinks of Finland as part of its country since Alexander I conquered it and made it a duchy. But it has the safety net of being part of the EU. The invasion of georgia happened at a the key time to derail the talks of joining NATO, which the Georgians were seeking to protect themselves from Russia. Since Russia has been destabalizing them for years. The interest in it for Russia is all the pipelines the travel through that country. Not to mention it was where Stalin came from. __________________ http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/in...itle=Main_Page Go here to read japanese light novels. They are the source of many of the shows you love.

12-08-2008, 11:13 PM	#53
Bradjune1980 Special Jounin Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Moving to Florida soon! Posts: 3,384 My Mood: Rep Power: 20 Total Awards: 2	Re: Georgia attempts to retake South Ossetia ^ so if a squatter moved into your shed and lived there for ten years cause your neighbor said he could while pointing a gun at you. And one day you say thats it im putting an end to this bullshit so you go out there to take back what is yours. Only to have your neighbor tell you it belongs to the squatter now even though you pay taxes on it and he starts shooting at you then charges into your house and says the first floor of your house belongs to him now. you would be ok with it. __________________ http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/in...itle=Main_Page Go here to read japanese light novels. They are the source of many of the shows you love.