Member's Views - Fansub/Scanlations: help or hurt?

[4thseal]

Naruto and Bleach Mania's Exposed will be running a monthly article expressing Member's view on a different topic each month. Members will be able to post their views on the topic, and some of these views will be featured in the next issues of Naruto Mania's Exposed.

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Fansub/Scanlations: help or hurt?

Fansub/Scanlations are more popular than ever on an international level. Many anime and manga are translated and converted to a formate that provides near instantaneous access to a broad audience. It is clear, however, that these practices are not legal everywhere. And, the contributors of these products do not gain financial from the direct reproduction of their work.

Thus, the question arises do Fansub/Scanlations help or hurt the Japaneses artist and anime/manga market? Do you think it's right for people other than those who hold rights to the media to distribute it? Why or why not? What effect does this have on the media and do you think it'll ultimately help or hurt the genre in the near and distant future?

[Apoo]

I think they help more than they hurt. How does a manga or anime series get popular? By people watching and reading. The more they read and watch, the more it is discussed, and the more the word gets out there, promoting the series. Specially in markets were these series aren't readily available to buy, or up to date.

[X2thaU]

Well im pretty sure subbing licensed anime/manga is illegal for a reason - so im gonna go with yes


edit: LMAO @ all the people that voted no.

[waqo]

Fansubbing and scanlations provide a very low cost way of advertising for mangakas who aren't as popular to put their work out there. As time goes on and the popularity of the manga rises more people are bound to purchase the volumes to support the author. There'll be an inevitable number of leechers who'll just enjoy the series without paying for it however in most cases I feel that the extra publicity and attention gained usually outweighs this.

In the case of extremely popular series that are licensed fansubbing and scanlations still offer an output that is untapped by the associated companies by putting a product out there in it's intended form. Often dubbed series are unable to do their counterparts justice because of things being lost in translation and many distributors put subtitles on as an afterthought.

I certainly feel that fansubbing and scanlations are a positive thing and without them the industry may never have been this huge.

[CLAY]

I think fansubbing helps the anime business. The popularity grows in the underground before the legit translations and dubs hit our shores. People will still buy it regardless, because when it hits it will be marketed by bad dubbing companies, such as 4kids, and targeted at the pre-teen demo graphic or actually picked up by a good dubbing company such as Funimation and it will make its way to [as] where the casual anime fan will see and buy the DVDs. Either way fansubbing/scanlations doesn't affect the anime market in a negative way but rather enhances it.

[Bungle]

I'm just going to say this.

How the FUCK did anime get so popular in the western world?

[nidaba]

I believe that fansubbing and scanning were essential to the anime/manga market forming outside of Japan. Without the free translations that were provided originally there would never have been enough of a demand for anime and manga to be released on the scale it is outside of Japan today. It introduced many series to people outside of Japan that never would have been discovered otherwise. So I really believe that fansubs and scanlations are what American anime companies have to thank for the market they have today.

At this point however, it can of course hurt the market of the more established series somewhat, as some people prefer the fansubs/scans to the official releases or simply do not want to spend the money. As a whole however I think it is still needed in order for the manga and anime market to continue to grow. It still is how most people are first introduced to anime and manga, and it is obvious that the market here is alive and well.

[Haohmaru]

I'd like to think it doesn't hurt the business, but it does. Especially people subbing licensed stuff. Even the people that stuff unlicensed anime hurt the business. They do advertize the anime and manga, but at the same time they bring out HQ stuff. Nowadays they even have stuff in HD. Only the hardcore fans, buy DVD's. I used to buy a lot of anime in the past. I hardly buy anything anymore. I blame it on fansubs. Only reason I would buy anime now, is when I see something I really want to have on blu-ray or DVD, that I'd rewatch. I'm talking about Movies and short OVA's or shows that I really want to own, that I can't burn on DVD, cause I can't find them in avi format.

Edit: Not really the case with manga. I hate reading manga on a computer. I'd much rather read it on paper. Who would choose reading behind a computer over chilling on a couch, with a book in your hands?

[Arukas]

It's a bit of a catch 22 really, because as many others have said - it does, in fact, invoke mass advertisement around to every region of the world, allowing all to enjoy and apprecaite what these artists are putting out, yet at the same time it cripples the industry's growth and drastically decreases the financial intake. As Haoh has pointed out, Millions of people now resort to the internet as a source, rather than putting out the money to buy these products. Not only does fansubs give us the chance to experience the otaku world right along with japan, it gives us the convenience to obtain it right from our very homes - for free.

So really it's just point of perspective. From a fan's perspective, it does alot more good than bad. However, from the industry's perspective, fansubs are likely more of a nuisance than anything else..

[Cane_The9lives]

I dont believe it hurts its the business all that much. The ones doing the fansubbing are not recieving any financial gain from it, they are merely allowing everyone to read these mangas/anime, when normally its not avaliable until a considerable amount of time, outside japan. As far as im concerned, its doesnt hurt the business the way in which i go about reading manga......becuase i dont just read manga online, i buy it. I collect manga, so speaking from my standpoint, im helping the business.

But in the overall picture, i think its good promotion.
Unless the manga authors and anime animators are losing money becuase of this, i dont believe its that detrimental to that paticular media.

[4thseal]

Follow up question (for anyone to respond to):

Originally Posted by Cane_The9lives

I dont believe it hurts its the business all that much. The ones doing the fansubbing are not recieving any financial gain from it, they are merely allowing everyone to read these mangas/anime, when normally its not avaliable until a considerable amount of time, outside japan. As far as im concerned, its doesnt hurt the business the way in which i go about reading manga......becuase i dont just read manga online, i buy it. I collect manga, so speaking from my standpoint, im helping the business.

What about sites, who either sub/scan or distribute the subs/scans, and also include advertising, which is a clear form of monetary gain. Does this make subbing/scanning more wrong? Does provide access to the masses trump making a profit off copyrighted material?

[Arukas]

Originally Posted by 4thseal

Follow up question (for anyone to respond to):



What about sights, who either sub/scan or distribute the subs/scans, and also include advertising, which is a clear form of monetary gain. Does this make subbing/scanning more wrong? Does provide access to the masses trump making a profit off copyrighted material?

Well, then you're just going into illegal activity, which is in a completely different ballpark, and is obviously wrong. In any case, fans generally know that they will never have to pay for fansubs. If one distributor did decide to charge for thier service, than I think fans would just wait or turn to another subber who offers thier service for free. Which is inevitable, concidering how vast the subbing community has gotten.

So yes, it would be wrong - however, that isn't likely to ever be the case.

[SHADENINJA]

I always buy whatever I read online as long as I like it

[Mossarelli]

I voted other. Here's statement:

At first, just like anything you download is a loss for the creator, if it's under license that is. And all the mangas are being sold in the stores and such so there's really no discussion about downloading free manga, if there's really not free without license.
Anyway, the problem we have with Japanese medial products is that they never leave japan and get global. But then still, we have some animes and mangas bought licenses from cartoon network or international shounen companies. But only the "major" series get published outside of Japan, leaving a lot other stuff that is good.
But the fansubs, they help us international readers and watchers to understand a beautiful world of ninjas, ghosts, wide drawn eyes and cute high-pitched girls with boobs. The western way of drawing things (Disney, *ahum*) they are so well known and we've all grown up with it. Looking of the progress they've made, they're making too much animated movies.

Conclusion:
I support fan subbing, translation-works, international distributions of the series outside of japan. Maybe the animators at their studios, or mangakas, have to bite the sour apple because of not distributing the series out of Japan; I don't care. I want it, read it, love it. There's nothing changing that. When the fan subbers gives us top quality distributions without DUBS, I gladly accept and download it.
They should thank the fan subbers at least a little. Where would the series of Naruto be without the subbers? Yet, they keep making shit...

[Raug]

Fansubbing, from a completely objective point of view, is wrong. The problem is, we can't get most of the unlicensed series outside of Japan. You take what you can get. Saying it's free advertising is just trying to justify fansubbing. I'm an avid watcher so I support fansubbing for bring things over that are normally out of reach. If there's a series I enjoy enough, I go out and buy the DVD's to appease my guilt.

However, I might bring back some different info after this Saturday at Otakon.

Fansubber and Industry Discussion
The issue of digital fansubbing and its effect on anime sales has become a major topic of conversation within all facets of the anime world in the US and Japan. Come join us in a discussion panel featuring some of the most experienced American anime industry representatives and some of the world's most experienced fansubbers. Featured panelists include John Sirabella, CEO of Media Blasters, Lance Heiskell, Director of Marketing for Funimation, and veteran representatives from Live-eviL, Shinsen, Anime-Empire, and Dattebayo fansubbing groups.

This should end up being a fairly good discussion about this topic.

[MD]

I buy manga, I received six volumes of manga in the mail just twenty minutes ago, I buy almost every manga I read (barring Naruto, Bleach and One Piece, which I believe aren't worth buying). Scanlating licensed manga is, quite frankly, theft, it's the same as stealing a manga volume from a store, it's ridiculous for people to try and justify these actions. "I don't have the money", "it's not stealing", not valid excuses, if you're okay with being a thief, good for you, if you want to claim that you can read scanlations of licensed series' and not be a thief? That's bull.

As for anime, to sub unlicensed anime generally increases it's popularity, but to sub licensed anime is the same as scanlating licensed manga, it's stealing, nothing more.

In summary: Subbing/scanlating licensed anime/manga hurts the industry, subbing/scanlating unlicensed anime/manga helps the industry.

[Apackof12ninjas]

I believe they help to a point and then become counter productive. If I had the money to afford buying all the manga I like I would but I cant. So I download the majority of what I read. The only manga I currently own in books is Mahou Sensei Negima, (10 volumes) Love hina (14) , Naruto (2) , NGE Angelic Days (5), and FMP (2) vs about 100 GB + of manga.

[Raug]

Fansubber and Industry Discussion
The issue of digital fansubbing and its effect on anime sales has become a major topic of conversation within all facets of the anime world in the US and Japan. Come join us in a discussion panel featuring some of the most experienced American anime industry representatives and some of the world's most experienced fansubbers. Featured panelists include John Sirabella, CEO of Media Blasters, Lance Heiskell, Director of Marketing for Funimation, and veteran representatives from Live-eviL, Shinsen, Anime-Empire, and Dattebayo fansubbing groups.

From what I heared here, both sides consider fansubbing a grey area. For instance, projected DVD sales for Funimation from 2003 didn't make their goal and is still recouping from production of anime from that year. On the other hand, both Media Blasters and Funimation both say they sometimes look at fansubs to help influence which series they license. Of course, this isn't the only thing they look at. Recently, Lance Heiskell said Funimation has had to pre-license a couple series before actually previewing the first couple episodes for plot and character development due to the impact fansubbing has had on the industry.

The problem is DVD sales are not metting their goals because of the wide availability of fansubs on a near 0-day timeline through torrents and streaming sites. Legal issues consume most of the time for companies which is one of the reasons for long waits on DVD subs and dubs. Both sides agreed that, while torrents are the main source of distrobution, streaming sites are the worst. Aside from people uploading torrents to random sites like torrentreactor, most fansubbing groups are compliant if they are asked to remove torrent links for episodes halting most of the distrobution. Streaming sites such as YouTube, Veoh, Dailymotion, Megavideo, etc. are all harder to control. While sites like YouTube are compliant when asked to remove videos, it's time consuming to find videos and for companies like Media Blasters and Funimation that time = money they don't have. In fact, Dattebayo is the 5th highest group requesting video takedowns on YouTube which is higher than Funimation. Funimation even said they let videos they licensed which are only clips of even 10 minutes slide.

A (hopeful) solution for some of the problem has been underway for Funimation for about a year and a half. They are trying a shift towards digitally releasing their licensed series in a similar fasion to Gonzo. They already have free, ad-sponsored, full episodes on YouTube as well as Anime on both Xbox and PS3 networks. An example they gave was the difference in DVD sales of Suzuka vs the sales on Xbox. Suzuka isn't very good at selling on DVD but it's one of the best sellers on Xbox. They're still underway in trying to get things working, but the problem is the consumer and their mentality.

The industry was pointing out that many of the current generation are under the impression that "the internet is free, right?" The problem is we get video with better quality than non-bluray DVDs for free. Even the rep from Shinsen said the industry should learn to transcode saying something like, "...a black background with a grey backwash? What's with that?" Media Blasters even said that the translation and encoding part of the proccess is the least work (with respect to all of the legal issues) so it makes me wonder why they produce DVD's like they do. You can get better quality for free on the internet, so why buy stuff, right? At the very least, the survey DB did recently showed that their subs made roughly 40% of the ~70,000 people who participated go out and buy DVDs and other merchandise. While this is a small demographic it shows that all is not being taken for free.

While the fansubbing world is harming the anime industry in the US as well as Japan, the industry was willing to do something similar to contracting work with fansubbing groups if legalities can be sorted out. However, this is not something that is seen to happen in the near future. The industry ad