Kakashi vs Sasuke [spoilers]

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by bluewingedD

I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Girfinkle. I always, have respect for your post, because you can listen to reason and admitt when your wrong.

Thanks.
Sorry man i took that way too personaly.

[ifeanyi84]

Originally Posted by Girfinkle1

bbloodline does affect the sharingan because the sharingan can't copy bloodline moves. and u don't understand what i'm trying to say if kakashi uses a air attack sasuke can just mimic it. cancleing out all of kakashis jutsus so the types of jutsus one knows isn't an issue. also if kakashi uses an air jutsu sasuke will just use a fire jutsu. they both know eachothers jutsus through the sharingan. if kakashi uses giant water dragon why wouldn't sasuke?
alright theres a limit to how much of the sharingan kakashi can master without being a true decendant of the bloodline. sort of like sasuke can't use the cs as well as juugo can. thats a given. and sasuke knows the has been shown to use the full extent of the sharingan he can even enter peoples minds on them and spam genjutsus kakashi can't do that.

(1-9 are the same point) if the chidori and riaki were 2 different moves than kakashi would have 2 sole jutsus. kakashi taught sasuke the chidori its been stated so many times. the only reason the name changed was because kakashi sliced lightning with it. gai has stated that.
4) Volume 16 chapter 142 p 12 i'd apreciate it if some1 posted the page for view but its right after the itachi clone explodes
6) at the time of the quote naruto hadn't seen any of the other ninja he had no idea what the other ninja were capable of.
7)having 2 is better than 1 and having the real bloodline is better than a small portion of it just as kakashi does.

who told you that there was a limit to how well kakashi can use his sharingan? who told you that sasuke cant use his cursed seal as well as juugo? he mastered the partial transformations, which surprised juugo, so i dont real think that what you say is true. another thing is that you're assuming that sasuke is able to use wind and other types of elements in the first place. i dont think that sasuke could just copy every jutsu that kakashi could use, because he wouldnt necessarily be capable of actually performing all of them. we have no evidence that sasuke can manipulate water chakra, so i doubt that he would be able to just mimic a water jutsu from kakashi either. kakashi can use genjutsu all he wants. the subtle use of genjutsu while fighting is something that we first were introduced to when kakashi used his sharingan against zabuza.

1)they are two different jutsu. raikiri is S ranked. chidori is A rank. here are the translations of the data book pages.
chidori Naruto Forums - View Single Post - Inquisitive's Data Book 2 Translation
raikiri Naruto Forums - View Single Post - Inquisitive's Data Book 2 Translation
4)this is what he said, and it's not nearly the same thing. http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WwBMH...16575370148586
6)you're arguing just to argue now. the point was and is that kakashi is a lot smarter and a lot more experienced than sasuke. kakashi later says out of his own mouth that he has a brain like shikamaru. whether kiba's nose has gotten better or not is irrelevant.
7)kakashi is using the real bloodline. that's a real sharingan in his face. we dont know how the sharingan works. it's your assumption that two is better than one. your assumption doesnt seem to be backed up in fact because even itachi commended kakashi on his use of the sharingan.

[Girfinkle1]

1)wow dude i don't know how to explain this to u.
its the same damn jutsu ifiani it just has a different name. the data book is bs gai says it 3 damn times. he even says "kakashis sole jutsu" as sasuke prefroms it it just has a different name.
4)didn't get the link but his word were we haven't seen itachis true power. i know your going to say mangekyo is what was referenced but it itachi wanted to he would have killed all of em.
6)once agaion u can't go off of what naruto said because naruto hadn't seen any of the other ninja in 2.5 years how does he know their skills. he only knows what they could do as geennin and even than not their full abilities. and naruto was exagerating he was plainly saying kakashi is strong.
and if u really want to continue this than what are you going to say about kakashi himself saying naruto was stronger?
7 he said he used the sharingan well wow. big woop. and yes what i said about having the bloodline has been backed up. itachi can use the mangekyo like 4 times kakashi uses it 2x and hes hospitalized. not to mention itachi also said he doesn't have uchiha blood so he can't use it to the full extent. and yes i do believe sasuke can't use the cs as well as juugo can he doesn't have the real deal like juugo does.
wow who says sasuke can't use water jutsus and air why not whats going to stop him as long as he copies the hand seals he can do it kakashi isn't a god ninja selected to master all kinds of ninjutsu. manipulating and using jutsus are 2 different things. sasuke probably uses lightning and fire because they are simply his strongest abilities.

[ifeanyi84]

i just have a whole bunch of questions for you.
do you realize that the databook is cannon?
are you also saying that you think that sasuke is as smart as kakashi? about kakashi saying that naruto is stronger, i agree. naruto is pretty much stronger than everyone. he has the demon fox in him. it doesnt mean he's better or will beat kakashi in a fight.
do you know that the reason kakashi was hospitalized is because he used all of his chakra? i'm not sure if you know this, but from what we know so far, mangekyo is the full extent of the sharingan. kakashi uses mangekyo.
do you realize that the curse seal is simply an enzyme and that the seal on sasuke causes him to produce the enzyme?sasuke's transformation is the real deal. i would still guess that juugo is more proficient with it because he's had it to use it longer and he probably uses it more, while sasuke's focus is elsewhere.
do you know that in order to use a jutsu of a particular element that you have to be able to elementally recompose your chakra to said element? do you realize that if sasuke cant elementally recompose his chakra into water or wind that he cant use jutsu of that element?

[Girfinkle1]

t the cs is and juugo has been locked up in a cell since he was about 7 so he really hasn't gotten a chance to use it. no sasukes transformation is not the real deal because there are different levels of the cs. if u hadn't noticed all of the sound 5 had a different cs mark. juugo on the other hand has every level of the cs.
there is more to the sharingan than just the mangekyo and sasuke has exploited and mastered all of the sharingan up to the mangekyo. the sharingan wastes alot more of kakashis chackra than it does sasuke and thats just to keep it up sasuke can do more for a longer period of time than kakashi can. also kakashi doesn't have uchiha blood like sasuke and itachi do and itachi pointed that out aswell as him not being able to use it to the full extent.
let me give you a little insight on the sharingan The sharingan's main ability is the mimicery of other jutus. It will copy any ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu. Of course it can also copy the movements of the opponent by studying him or her carefully. The more times the person uses the sharingan, the more jutsus they copy. If they continue to keep the sharingan out, they will continue to copy jutsus even if it's against their will. It acts automatically like a car alarm. If it sees a jutsu, it starts to act up and acts like a defensive system. Like a car's defensive system is an alarm, the sharingan's defensive system is to copy what they see. Although, the sharingan's accuracy of mimicing the techiniques is high, it doesn't gurantee complete mastery of the jutsu. For incredibly difficult and extremely high-level jutsu, it requires practice. Of course the sharingan can speed up the process. It can first copy what hand seals are required (if any at all) and then all they have to do is find the right amount of chakra to exert. If it's a move that requires no hand seals then all they have to do is exert the right amount of chakra into the right place. If it's a taijutsu technique then they will have no problem with that. They can just remember what movements they copied and practice on that. Another ability is that it can see through illusions. For example if there were many bunshin or Kage bunshin all the sharingan user would see is balls of chakra that look like flames. This allows them to seperate what is real and what isn't.

[Anbukakashi14]

I'm sorry but are you guys insane?!
kakashi doesn't stand a chance! the mangekyou takes way too long to charge and by then sasuke would be hacking and slashing away kakashi's corpse with his sword
then there's chidori hagashi and stage two curse mark
if sasuke could beat one tails naruto BEFORE the timeskip he'd have no trouble killing kakashi after it
oh yeah, and who's to say he doesn't know mangekyou just because we hsven't seen it yet doesn't mean he doesn't have it
Edit: point sasuke beat fox cloak before the skip and kakashi couldn't have
Therefore sasuke is more powerful than kakashi

[ifeanyi84]

so basically you're saying that kakashi couldnt handle one-tailed naruto? that's pretty funny.

and at this point, sasuke doesnt have the ms until he shows otherwise. who's to say that kakashi doesnt have a jutsu to instant kill sasuke just because we havent seen it yet?

if you have any serious points to raise, we'd be happy to hear them, but this nonsense you've posted is pretty unnecessary.

[Sasuke's Legacy]

Kakashi ftw...

ANBUKakashi, dude you need to be more careful with your opinions. Anything that isn't proof is called speculation and can't be used as valid elements to an argument. This always seems to happen in debates and it's not that bad really, but it gets over done I think.

Ifeany, I'm not exactly sure what you meant about Sasuke not being able to use any other elements though. Do you mean wind and water combined? If that's what you were saying, true in a way I think, since it would basically be copying a bloodline and that isn't possible I don't think. But he could use two elemental manipulation I guess like RS with Naruto. That's speculation anyways. But if you were saying he couldn't use wind OR water then I have to disagree, Kakashi is able to do it easily despite it not being his strongest element, so could an Uchiha. Irrelevant though...

Kakashi and Sasuke are both smart, but when it comes to experience and full out wits the Hatake has more potential. Kakashi also seems to have a wider vocabulary of techniques, yes Oro trained with Sasuke but Kakashi got that sharingan when he was just barely a teenager, and then could use it up till now. That's more time to train, get experience, make strategies, and gain more techniques.

But I think Sasuke will end up spamming chidori and shunshin with a bit of katon and genjutsu here and there, which all are things Kakashi could handle. Sasuke is amazingly fast, but Kakashi could use a numerous amount of methods to avoid being hit like that. For instant the Kirigakure hidden mist jutsu or the head hunting jutsu.

Sasuke has talent but Kakashi knows his style, and is smart enough to utilize a strategy against him.

[ifeanyi84]

i dont think that sasuke is faster than kakashi, but that's just me. about the elements i'm saying that if sasuke doesnt isnt able to manipulate water element chakra, he's not gonna suddenly copy a water jutsu. in terms of kakashi i look at it as a case of what came first, the chicken or the egg. i actually think that that he knew how to use the elemental types before he started copying jutsu for them. i could be incorrect. idunno.

[Sasuke's Legacy]

I think Sasuke is slightly faster but not by a huge difference.

And it doesn't matter what your chakra affinity is, any person can perform elemental jutsus. It just takes more effort and concentration, which shouldn't be out of reach for someone with the sharingan like Sasuke. I see what you're saying though, in a way. You think Kakashi could do Zabuza's techniques easily because you think he already had experience with suiton, or something like that, right? That would make it easier but I still think a sharingan user with good chakra control and perception would be able to do it fairly quickly after seeing it.

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by ifeanyi84

i dont think that sasuke is faster than kakashi, but that's just me. about the elements i'm saying that if sasuke doesnt isnt able to manipulate water element chakra, he's not gonna suddenly copy a water jutsu. in terms of kakashi i look at it as a case of what came first, the chicken or the egg. i actually think that that he knew how to use the elemental types before he started copying jutsu for them. i could be incorrect. idunno.

I doubt it. If a technique has hand signs the sharingan will copy it.

What your thinking of is techniques added with nature manipulation. That unless they have expertise in that area they can't use it. See THAT is true.

Sasuke can't copy rasenshuriken because it requires you to have a affinity for wind, and he doesnt

A water jutsu doesnt require a affinity.

So unless kakashi had a jutsu that requried an affinity sasuke could copy as many of the thousand jutsu kakashi has.

And possibly even outlast kakashi since he has more chakra than him, and alot more stamina because his sharingan doesnt eat up as much chakra as kakashi's.

And technically sasuke can copy rasengan.

and at this point, sasuke doesnt have the ms until he shows otherwise. who's to say that kakashi doesnt have a jutsu to instant kill sasuke just because we havent seen it yet?

Pure speculation. That technique hasnt been shown so you cant argue that he does. Same as was being said with sasuke and mangekyou earlier.

[Sasuke's Legacy]

Why must everything be about the sharingan?? Sasuke may not eat up as much chakra with his eyes, but he spams Chidori and shunshin so much it makes up for it. And Kakashi isn't just going to use different techniques all the time to try and snag Sasuke, he's smarter than that. It'll be a battle of thinking ahead, in which case Kakashi would have the lead.

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by Sasuke's Legacy

Why must everything be about the sharingan?? Sasuke may not eat up as much chakra with his eyes, but he spams Chidori and shunshin so much it makes up for it. And Kakashi isn't just going to use different techniques all the time to try and snag Sasuke, he's smarter than that. It'll be a battle of thinking ahead, in which case Kakashi would have the lead.

? Sasuke uses his chidori in more energy efficient ways such as his sword and chakra needles, and nagashi instead of discharing a large amoiunt of energy in one shot like kakashi does.

And we havent seen anything that says sasukes shunshin takes alot of chakra, what makes you say that it does.

And every battle is a battle of thinking ahead but that doesnt neccesarily mean its the deciding factor.

Sasuke avoided Deidra's attack by summoning manda a last second tactic, so intuition can combat being prepared any day, just depends on the ninja, and sasuke is an amazing ninja.

And with sasuke's speed, combined with his sharingan he would be able to dodge, and copy a majority of kakashi's attacks, and wear kakashi out.

His mangekyou wouldnt even be a factor due to kakashi being unable to control the size and location of it. He could barely hit a slow ass moving Deidra, Theres no way he'd even come close to hitting a body flickering sasuke.

[Sasuke's Legacy]

It doesn't matter if shunshin takes a lot of chakra or not, that's not what I said. I said he spams it so much that it would quickly end up draining his chakra. And Sasuke may not make it a full out power thing like Kakashi does, but it takes a lot more concentration and manipulation to shape chidori in such a way which would take its toll as well.

And thinking ahead doesn't really mean being prepared necessarily. It's being creative, adaptive, and being daring while taking the least amount of risk. I think Kakashi has the ability to do that better than Sasuke.

What good does a copied attack do if Kakashi knows how to use it as well? And I said Kakashi ISN'T going to spam a bunch of different attacks from his arsenal solely because Sasuke has a sharingan set. Wear kakashi out?? The guy lasted for an entire day with Sakura and Naruto, that's a lot of stamina for people who trained under sannin.

I said nothing about the MS...

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by Sasuke's Legacy

It doesn't matter if shunshin takes a lot of chakra or not, that's not what I said. I said he spams it so much that it would quickly end up draining his chakra. And Sasuke may not make it a full out power thing like Kakashi does, but it takes a lot more concentration and manipulation to shape chidori in such a way which would take its toll as well.

And thinking ahead doesn't really mean being prepared necessarily. It's being creative, adaptive, and being daring while taking the least amount of risk. I think Kakashi has the ability to do that better than Sasuke.

What good does a copied attack do if Kakashi knows how to use it as well? And I said Kakashi ISN'T going to spam a bunch of different attacks from his arsenal solely because Sasuke has a sharingan set. Wear kakashi out?? The guy lasted for an entire day with Sakura and Naruto, that's a lot of stamina for people who trained under sannin.

I said nothing about the MS...

If a body flicker doesnt take alot of chakra, that means you can't use it many times without it having a large affect. I dont get how you can say it doesnt take up alot of chakra, but over time it would kill him, when i'm sure thats the same for kakashi, yet you don't concede that to be a factor, but you do with sasuke.

And creative? Look at the adaptations sasuke has created with chidori in simply 2.5 years.

Kakashi's has the thing for almost 20 years and hasn't expanded its abilities any further in that time. I'd definetly say sasuke kicks his ass in creativity, especially if we look his match with Deidra.

And adaptive? In kakashi's fight against DD he told naruto that the only way to combat long distance jutsu, was to combat it with another long distance jutsu of the same level. IE his MS.

Sasuke on the other hand retained his close range skills, and used them in a unique way to FORCE Deidra in to close range combat, something kakashi wasnt able to do.

And his genjutsu has far surpassed kakashi's.

You can't even argue stamina. Sasuke has more chakra, and kakashi's chakra is constantly being drained due to sharingan.

And you ask what does it matter if sasuke can copy his attacks, if kakashi can do them better.

Because sasuke could cancel out each and every one of his jutsu with the same jutsu, and succeed in tiring him out, with his obviousley greater stamina.

[Sasuke's Legacy]

Hmm, but Kakashi doesn't use the body flicker in fights now does he? So that doesn't even appeal to him. I'm not sure what your getting at with the chakra cost. It's kinda simple. You use a jutsu over and over, it drains your chakra, no matter how much chakra it takes.

Sasuke did that on his own? There's no verification of that. It MIGHT have helped that he was with a sannin for two years who's goal is to master all the jutsu in the world. Not that he knew how, but he could've taught him the concept.

Yes he did say that, but I HIGHLY doubt that his MS is his only long range option. He said he had been meaning to try it out more but that was the quickest way possible. Which would be easier, looking at someone and blowing their arm into another dimension or using a jutsu to try and catch him. That won't be the same in the Sasuke fight. Oh and DD kind of ran away?? You don't know how the fight would've turned out to be like if DD stayed back and fought.

BWAHAHAHA! You've seen Sasuke use Genjutsu like three times, there's nothing to prove that.

Sasuke spams his chidori and shunshin like a dude on crack, Kakashi doesn't waste jutsus. And Sasuke's being drained from the sharingan too, even if it is less of a drain.

Your not getting my fucking point. I'm saying Kakashi IS NOT GOING TO SPAM HIS JUTSUS!! Why in the name of hell would he use jutsus that Sasuke would immediately copy and try to cancel out. But I have to disagree, Kakashi has years of experience when Sasuke wasn't even alive, that's plenty of time to perfect jutsus so how did you come to the conclusion that Sasuke can do the jutsu better? Just because he's an Uchiha? Hmm, who is know to have the MS which is a more powerful sharingan?? Kakashi, not Sasuke.

Bull shit with the stamina. He's just a spammer with speed.

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by Sasuke's Legacy

Hmm, but Kakashi doesn't use the body flicker in fights now does he? So that doesn't even appeal to him. I'm not sure what your getting at with the chakra cost. It's kinda simple. You use a jutsu over and over, it drains your chakra, no matter how much chakra it takes.

Kakashi is going to use sharingan alot more than sasuke is going to use body flicker, and sharingan eats up alot more chakra. Why do you say that sasuke using this will drain all of his chakra, but you won't concede to the concept that the same goes for kakashi

Sasuke did that on his own? There's no verification of that. It MIGHT have helped that he was with a sannin for two years who's goal is to master all the jutsu in the world. Not that he knew how, but he could've taught him the concept.

No actually orochimaru had nothing to do with it. When he attempts to kill orochimaru, and stabs him with his electricity sword orochimaru said that he had never seen this shape manipulation b4.

Hence the reason him saying, "WHo are you?"

Yes he did say that, but I HIGHLY doubt that his MS is his only long range option. He said he had been meaning to try it out more but that was the quickest way possible. Which would be easier, looking at someone and blowing their arm into another dimension or using a jutsu to try and catch him. That won't be the same in the Sasuke fight. Oh and DD kind of ran away?? You don't know how the fight would've turned out to be like if DD stayed back and fought.

DO you honestly think him and sasuke would have a long range batttle?

BWAHAHAHA! You've seen Sasuke use Genjutsu like three times, there's nothing to prove that.

Thats more than we've seen kakashi use sharingan genjutsu. You can't even contest that he's as adept at it as sasuke is, right now sasuke is using genjutsu thats keeping up with itachi's.

Unless your reasoning that kakashi is a genjutsu master on itachi's level.

Sasuke spams his chidori and shunshin like a dude on crack, Kakashi doesn't waste jutsus. And Sasuke's being drained from the sharingan too, even if it is less of a drain.

Sasuke's sharingan drain is almost insignificant, while kakashi's is exponential. And sasuke has a huge amount of chakra, even when he spams chidori he last a long amount of time. Any when did he spam the body flicker go ahead and tell me?

In he Deidra fight? I think he used that shit twice, maybe 3 times. Yea ur right he needs to get off that jutsu's dick. wtf, he uses it extremely efficiently.

And especially if their body is a close range one, body flicker would only be used very rarely because their'd be no long distance to be covered.

Your not getting my fucking point. I'm saying Kakashi IS NOT GOING TO SPAM HIS JUTSUS!! Why in the name of hell would he use jutsus that Sasuke would immediately copy and try to cancel out.

I was saying that all of kakashi's jutsu at his disposal require hand signs (besides chidori, and sasuke already is better at it than him) that means sasuke could succesfully copy his jutsu, whethor or not he was spamming them or not.

But I have to disagree, Kakashi has years of experience when Sasuke wasn't even alive, that's plenty of time to perfect jutsus so how did you come to the conclusion that Sasuke can do the jutsu better?

Using your logic Pein should've gotten his ass kicked by Jiraiya, a man who had years of experience over him. Age means nothing, experiences doesn't mean shit.

Look at kakuza, he 100+ under his belt, and he got pwned by a genin.

Just because he's an Uchiha? Hmm, who is know to have the MS which is a more powerful sharingan?? Kakashi, not Sasuke.

The ms has one technique that he can't even catch sasuke with.

And if he was going to fight sasuke do you think he would put a shit load of his chakra into one shot. Especially after seeing his body flicker. Kakashi's MS would not play a part in this battle unless kakashi had a death wish, so they'd both have to relay on their regular sharingans, and sasuke is not only more adpet at his, he has two, and their energy efficient, and he can actually use high level genjutsu on itachi's level, something kakashi hasnt been shown to do, yet im sure you'll argue he can for some reason.

Bull shit with the stamina. He's just a spammer with speed.

Kakashi used MS twice on Deidra and had to be carried home by gai.

Sasuke did about a million chidori, summoned snakes, used the hidden snake hand techniques, used his body flicker which you figure would exhaunst him, used CS2 which decays his body, ran a chidori through himself.

And after all that he summoned Manda.

Do you honestly believe kakashi to be able to do this?