Kakashi vs Sasuke [spoilers]

[Girfinkle1]

was i even talking to u?

actually kakashi can't channel it if sasuke has complete control over it.

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by Sasuke's Legacy

What does that even mean? It really just adds more spam to the thread lol.

That would be pretty funny if you're using 'boy' as a derogatory term.. If so that's the worst insult I've ever seen.

Do you have an argument against the lightning theory? Which do you think is more likely? Kakashi channeling the lightning towards him and anticipating it to split it, or Kakashi being able to react in 1/1000 of a second. Either way it's bad for Sasuke. Since Kakashi may be able to channel Sasuke's Kirin as well and make it miss, or he can be able to dodge it by reacting in 1/1000 of a second.

Bullshit kakashi could make it miss.

Kakashi doesnt have the shape manipulation neccesary even to make a chidori sword, or needles, you think he could control a lightning bolt?

Him having the lightning element doesnt mean he has automatic control over lightning, If that were true then Sasuke probably mastered Kirin on his first attempt while learning the jutsu.

You have to have extreme focus and shape manipulation to guide that thing, and i doubt Kakashi could.

[Redshadow49]

Originally Posted by Uchihaeyez

Bullshit kakashi could make it miss.

Kakashi doesnt have the shape manipulation neccesary even to make a chidori sword, or needles, you think he could control a lightning bolt?

Him having the lightning element doesnt mean he has automatic control over lightning, If that were true then Sasuke probably mastered Kirin on his first attempt while learning the jutsu.

You have to have extreme focus and shape manipulation to guide that thing, and i doubt Kakashi could.

Kakashi can make the rasengan (I believe an S class Jutsu) which is a very difficult shape manipulation jutsu (took the 4th hokage 3 years to master). Kakashi was just never able to mix in his lighting elemental chakra into the rasengan. Don't underestimate a jonin of his level.

Correct me if im wrong, but in the manga when sasuke was using kirin jutsu he didn't use any shape manipulation (It looked like a normal chidori). Anyway what Im saying is that Kakashi need to channel the lighting enough to force it to miss him.

he can be able to dodge it by reacting in 1/1000 of a second.

If Itachi couldn't dodge it Kakashi won't. In fight Kakashi vs. Itachi, kakashi stated that itachi is fast (and im guess compared to himself itach is faster).

[Delpheous2089]

The fight would never get far enough for Kakashi to even think about countering Sasuke's jutsu's with his own.

Sasuke just defeated the best genjutsu user at genjutsu without even having MS.

Let me say that again. . .Sasuke just defeated the best genjutsu user in the entire series. . .the best genjutsu attack in the series. . .without having the Menge Sharingan!


Sasuke just looks at him, and the fight is over. He did the same thing vs. Oro, he did the same thing vs. Deidara. He made them believe what he wanted them to, and then he worked around their nonsense.

And even if it did get far enough that Kakashi somehow got out of Sasuke's far, far, FAR superior Sharingan. . .Sasuke suddenly has a ton load of chakra. Sasuke's Sharingan does not drain him like Kakashi's does. Sasuke has the best replacement technique in the series. Sasuke has a superior Chidori. Sasuke has Summon God's Wrath no jutsu. Sasuke has comparable taijutsu, probably better since he has two Sharingan eyes. Sasuke is no doubt comparably as fast. Sasuke has Snake summons. Sasuke has CS lvl 2. Sasuke has a win vs. the Sannin that had Kakashi crapping his pants early in the series.

Now what does Kakashi have?

A Menge Sharingan technique that still hasn't been explained(as far as I know. I don't pay much attention anymore). . .and dual Chidori.

Now then, the dual Chidori means absolutely nothing. . .But are you willing to assume that the same Sasuke that deciphered Deidara's techniques perfectly, the same one that defeated Oro, and the same one that trumped both of the previous Menge techniques. . .couldn't figure out Kakashi's?

Past that. . .does he even get that far and desperate enough to use it anyway?

Ha. The student has so far surpassed the master that even Master Roshi is shaking his head at how lopsided this fight would be now. . .

[endomilik]

Originally Posted by Redshadow49

Kakashi can make the rasengan (I believe an S class Jutsu) which is a very difficult shape manipulation jutsu (took the 4th hokage 3 years to master). Kakashi was just never able to mix in his lighting elemental chakra into the rasengan. Don't underestimate a jonin of his level.

Correct me if im wrong, but in the manga when sasuke was using kirin jutsu he didn't use any shape manipulation (It looked like a normal chidori). Anyway what Im saying is that Kakashi need to channel the lighting enough to force it to miss him.


If Itachi couldn't dodge it Kakashi won't. In fight Kakashi vs. Itachi, kakashi stated that itachi is fast (and im guess compared to himself itach is faster).

1.) Rasengan is just a A-Class jutsu..

2.) Rasengan doesnt have any Shape Manipulation, I dont know what manga you are reading, But Rasengan it just a spiral. I dont see any shape manipulation on that?

3.) Kakashi wasnt able to mix his lightning chakra to rasengan because he could not do it at all, even Yondaime could not do it because it take a lot of chakra why its Spinning.

4.) 4th created the jutsu with out doing a handseal that why it took him 4 yrs to master it. Kakashi never master the rasengan, just because you can use it doesnt mean you already master it. Did u take a good look while Kakashi using rasengan? He was holding his wrist while using the rasengan, while Jiraiya and Yondaime only need 1 hand to cast rasengan.

5.) Kirin is not a "chakra". Instead using his lightning manipulation he rather gather the lightning itself using the nature lightning and manipulation the lightning shape into a dragon, which is cannot be dodge because the nature lightning does travel in speed of light. This make the real lightning that have been gathered is far superior than lightning chakra manipulation, said by that 2 face akatsuki.

Sasuke take this.

If Kakashi said himself even Naruto surpass his level already.

[Redshadow49]

Originally Posted by endomilik

1.) Rasengan is just a A-Class jutsu..

2.) Rasengan doesnt have any Shape Manipulation, I dont know what manga you are reading, But Rasengan it just a spiral. I dont see any shape manipulation on that?

3.) Kakashi wasnt able to mix his lightning chakra to rasengan because he could not do it at all, even Yondaime could not do it because it take a lot of chakra why its Spinning.

4.) 4th created the jutsu with out doing a handseal that why it took him 4 yrs to master it. Kakashi never master the rasengan, just because you can use it doesnt mean you already master it. Did u take a good look while Kakashi using rasengan? He was holding his wrist while using the rasengan, while Jiraiya and Yondaime only need 1 hand to cast rasengan.

5.) Kirin is not a "chakra". Instead using his lightning manipulation he rather gather the lightning itself using the nature lightning and manipulation the lightning shape into a dragon, which is cannot be dodge because the nature lightning does travel in speed of light. This make the real lightning that have been gathered is far superior than lightning chakra manipulation, said by that 2 face akatsuki.

Sasuke take this.

If Kakashi said himself even Naruto surpass his level already.

Your pretty much only right about Rasengan being a A class jutsu.

Everything else your wrote just proved your a moron and I really don't want to waste my time.

Read NARUTO MANGA CHAPTER 321
Then you will understand

By the way you pretty much convinced me that Kakashi will win

[endomilik]

Originally Posted by Redshadow49

Your pretty much only right about Rasengan being a A class jutsu.

Everything else your wrote just proved your a moron and I really don't want to waste my time.

Read NARUTO MANGA CHAPTER 321
Then you will understand

By the way you pretty much convinced me that Kakashi will win

Yes I do read naruto manga...

So what part did you not understand that "Rasengan do not use any shape manipulation".

In that case Rasengan is just a jutsu that rely on chakra manipulation. It does not use any Shape manipulation.

Rasengan = chakra manipulation
Rasen Shuriken = Shape manipulation. (nature element)

Oh yah I just prove everything wrong? Maybe u wanted to see kakashi holding his wrist while trying to use rasengan.

Kirin is not a chakra. It is the Lightning element it self. That is right.

4th took so long to master the rasengan because he's the creator it self. that is right.

[GiantMidget]

Rasengan is shape manipulation.....

[Adrian4695]

Itachi > kakashi

Sasuke > itachi ( from what i'm seeing sasuke is about to finish off his bro)

Sasuke >> Kakashi

plus with kakashi low charka count, sasuke will man handle him. latest manga chapter sasuke though.

but kakashi is a guy who has 1000 attakcs rights, im sure he still has a few tricks he's hiding, but i still think sasuke would own.

[endomilik]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

Rasengan is shape manipulation.....

No that Rasen Shuriken. Rasengan is a highly advance chakra manipulation. That why kakashi could not use his lightning chakra to manipulate it shape into rasengan.

That why kakashi explain 2 things of manipulation. Which is Chakra Manipulation and Shape (nature) Manipulation.

Originally Posted by Adrian4695

but kakashi is a guy who has 1000 attakcs rights, im sure he still has a few tricks he's hiding, but i still think sasuke would own.

Kakashi cant use 1000 jutsu. Their only limited, u wont see kakashi using those jutsu except Thousand Years of Pain.

[GiantMidget]

No theres 2 kinds of chakra manipulation shape and element. pre time skip naruto had shape but no element sasuke has element but no shape. Sasuke has to charge with speed to make up for the lack of shape manipulation, and the Rasengan was the peak of shape manipulation to make up for the lack for element in it.

The Rasengan is the peak of shape manipulations, not only did it have to maintain its ball shape, inside that ball had to have chakra swirling in many different directions and you have to maintain that through out the entire jutsu.

That means kakashi has lighting and shape manipulation under is belt.
He might not be able to completely counter the Kirin, but with his reaction he could slight alter its path and dodge at the same time.

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by Redshadow49

Kakashi can make the rasengan (I believe an S class Jutsu) which is a very difficult shape manipulation jutsu (took the 4th hokage 3 years to master). Kakashi was just never able to mix in his lighting elemental chakra into the rasengan. Don't underestimate a jonin of his level.

Correct me if im wrong, but in the manga when sasuke was using kirin jutsu he didn't use any shape manipulation (It looked like a normal chidori). Anyway what Im saying is that Kakashi need to channel the lighting enough to force it to miss him.


If Itachi couldn't dodge it Kakashi won't. In fight Kakashi vs. Itachi, kakashi stated that itachi is fast (and im guess compared to himself itach is faster).

Thats not a valid exscuse. Just because its made out of thunder doesnt mean Kakashi can neccesarily handle it.

He'd have to battle over control with Sasuke, a guy who could possibly have trained with this jutsu for 3 years.

You think on his first try kakashi could wrestle control away from him, without having any knowledge of the jutsu.

Theres no way. In fact i'd say the statements damn near ridiculous.

Originally Posted by endomilik

No that Rasen Shuriken. Rasengan is a highly advance chakra manipulation. That why kakashi could not use his lightning chakra to manipulate it shape into rasengan.

Rasengan is shape maniplulation.
Chidori is elemental, and shape manipulation.
RS is elemental and shape manipulation.

Chakra manipulation is just being able to control chakra, like standing on water or attaching to tree's.

[GiantMidget]

Kakashi might not be able to wrestle it away from sasuke, but with his reaction speed to be able predict where a lighting bolt would strike from the moment it strikes and before it reaches the ground and slice it with a raikri only shows his level of reaction, with this being said with some shape and lighting manipulation kakashi can possibly slightly alter its path while dodging at the same time prevent himself from being struck by it.

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

Kakashi might not be able to wrestle it away from sasuke, but with his reaction speed to be able predict where a lighting bolt would strike from the moment it strikes and before it reaches the ground and slice it with a raikri only shows his level of reaction, with this being said with some shape and lighting manipulation kakashi can possibly slightly alter its path while dodging at the same time prevent himself from being struck by it.

Dude wtf, just because he has the same nature doesnt mean he can control it.

You dont see Sasuke redirecting Itachi's flames, and you didnt see Kakashi wrestling water away from the control of itachi or Kisame pre-time skip.

Kisame's water jutsu is a prime example of a ninja using nature for a jutsu, and a person capable of using the same nature manipulation not attempting to control their jutsu.

[endomilik]

Originally Posted by Uchihaeyez

Rasengan is shape maniplulation.
Chidori is elemental, and shape manipulation.
RS is elemental and shape manipulation.

Chakra manipulation is just being able to control chakra, like standing on water or attaching to tree's.

Rasengan is a Highly Advance Chakra Manipulation. It doesnt have any nature (shape) chakra on it.

Kakashi mentioned 2 Type of Manipulation
1.) Chakra Manipulation
2.) Shape Manipulation (Nature Element).

(Akatsuki) Zetsu said this that Sasuke used kirin combining his Chakra Manipulation and Shape Manipulation (To form kirin from thunder).

I dont see a Spinning would be a shape. Since it said by kakashi it is a highly advance chakra manipulation and in order to manipulate it shape. Naruto was able to manipulate rasengan shape into a shuriken.

Just like kakashi said about his chidori, Chidori doesnt even have a shape to begin with, it just a chakra. By combining his lightning element into his chidori it form a shape like lightning.

[GiantMidget]

Originally Posted by endomilik

Rasengan is a Highly Advance Chakra Manipulation. It doesnt have any nature (shape) chakra on it.

Kakashi mentioned 2 Type of Manipulation
1.) Chakra Manipulation
2.) Shape Manipulation (Nature Element).

(Akatsuki) Zetsu said this that Sasuke used kirin combining his Chakra Manipulation and Shape Manipulation (To form kirin from thunder).

I dont see a Spinning would be a shape. Since it said by kakashi it is a highly advance chakra manipulation and in order to manipulate it shape. Naruto was able to manipulate rasengan shape into a shuriken.

Just like kakashi said about his chidori, Chidori doesnt even have a shape to begin with, it just a chakra. By combining his lightning element into his chidori it form a shape like lightning.

omg....
The Rasengan is a sphere which is a shape and within that sphere naruto has to swirl chakra in all directions which causes the Rasengan to be the peak of shape manipulation.

The chidori was only element, no shape until now.

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by endomilik

Rasengan is a Highly Advance Chakra Manipulation. It doesnt have any nature (shape) chakra on it.

Kakashi mentioned 2 Type of Manipulation
1.) Chakra Manipulation
2.) Shape Manipulation (Nature Element).

(Akatsuki) Zetsu said this that Sasuke used kirin combining his Chakra Manipulation and Shape Manipulation (To form kirin from thunder).

I dont see a Spinning would be a shape. Since it said by kakashi it is a highly advance chakra manipulation and in order to manipulate it shape. Naruto was able to manipulate rasengan shape into a shuriken.

Just like kakashi said about his chidori, Chidori doesnt even have a shape to begin with, it just a chakra. By combining his lightning element into his chidori it form a shape like lightning.

Here's proof

Here he says there are two types of chakra manipulation techniques.
Nature manipulation, and spatial recomposition.

Meaning shape, and nature manipulation.

So you were wrong about that.

Here in the same picture, in the last panel he explains Chidori is both spatial composition, and nature manipulation.

Meaning both shape, and nature manipulation.

So you were wrong about that.

In the bottom middle panel kakashi says that Rasengan is a jutsu heavily built on Spatial recomposition.

Meaning shape manipulation.

So you were wrong about that.

And here in the whole page he explains how Narutos new jutsu is going to be a combination of Spatial Recomposition, and Nature manipulation fused together, something him and the fourth were unable to accomplish.

Meaning Shape, and Nature manipulation.

And once again you were wrong.

[Redshadow49]

^Wow and here i was just calling him a moron and commenting that i don't want to waste my time proving myself.

here is my final rating (this is all my opinion)
Speed= Sasuke > Kakashi
Experience= Sasuke < Kakashi
Chakra= Sasuke > Kakashi
Sharingan= Sasuke = Kakashi (Sasuke was able to defeat itachs ms, but kakashi's ms is more physical)
Jutsus= Sasuke < Kakashi (We only see Sasuke use fire, summoning, and different versions of chidori, while Kakashi has been seen using summonings, lighting, water, fire, earth, I don't think we have ever seen him use wind)

I still think Kakashi will win cause every battle he has been in (except Itachi) he won.
deidara was afraid of Kakashi (and Kakashi would have completely owned him if deidara didn't run away), while sasuke came close to death win battling deidara.