Kakashi vs Sasuke [spoilers]

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

Speed=Sasuke>kakashi until kakashi opens gates
Experience=Sasuke<kakashi
Chakra=Sasuke>kakashi
Sharingan=just because Sasuke resisted the MS doesn't make it more powerful then an ms, it just makes it immune Tsyukyomi kakashi's MS is more physical mental.
Jutsus=Sasuke> kakashi
Intellect=Sasuke<Kakashi
Manipualtion=kakashi>Sasuke because they both have element, but kakashis shape manipulation is better, because it has been said that the rasengan was the "spacial recomposition at the higest level"

wtf.
Sasuke was able to break down an extremely powerful genjutsu.
A genjutsu that kakashi was unable to break down.

In terms of Sharingan i think Sasuke talent exceeds Kakashi.

Wtf? Spatial recomposition is also how Sasuke creates his chidori, sword, and needles, and how he uses it to create a multiple spears after he's impaled someone like he did Itachi clone.

And besides.

The thing with RS and rasengan and chidori is that it must stay in the hand so that it can continousley be kept under control by shape manipulation.

Sasuke's chidori needle breaks this boundary.

He's found a way to allow the jutsu to preserve itself in the shape of needles after being released from his hand and still retaining its form, and power.

Sasuke shape manipulation FAR exceeds kakashi's.

[GiantMidget]

Yet Kishi made kakashi say that the Rasengan is the "spacial recomposition at the highest level) sword or not the rasengans shape is not just a sphere it is more intricate then that.

Sasukes eye does exceed kakashis but only in breaking of genjutsus which kakashi does not use often. in other aspects of the sharingan it has not been shown that he exceeds that much.

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

Yet Kishi made kakashi say that the Rasengan is the "spacial recomposition at the highest level) sword or not the rasengans shape is not just a sphere it is more intricate then that.

He said it uses extremly advanced shape manipulation.
That doesnt mean it uses the highest level.
Shit RS is a level shape manipulation higher than rasengan since its a combination or manipulations, meaning Rasengan isn't the highest form.

Especially now that we know from Kirin you can use shape manipulation from forces of nature.

Rasengan is no where near the highest level of shape manipulation. And even if it is, Sasuke shape manipulation is way more diverse, and resourcful than Kakashi's, and Sasuke's many manipulations with chidori pwn the shit out of Kakashi's one spherical version of Rasengan.

Sasukes eye does exceed kakashis but only in breaking of genjutsus which kakashi does not use often. in other aspects of the sharingan it has not been shown that he exceeds that much.

What other aspects? Copying technqiues? Sasuke's handseals are even faster than Itachi's i Doubt Kakashi could keep up.

Plus Sasuke has two eyes, and way more stamina since sharingan doesnt eat up as much chakra as it takes out of Kakashi.

[ifeanyi84]

i'll look for the page later, but it has been stated that rasengan is shape manipulation at it's highest level. imo that is what makes rasenshuriken so dangerous. it's shape manipulation at it's highest level combined with an elemental recomposition of the element with the highest attacking power. sasuke's shapes that he uses with his lightning chakra arent even that serious. they show resourcefulness, but there is nothing that suggests that they take any increased skill. i think that to say that he was able to overcome kakashi's limitations by throwing lightning chakra needles is inaccurate. when naruto was first learning elemental recomposition, he was able to emit wind chakra from his palms enough to cut a waterfall. the shapes that sasuke was using seem to be pretty trivial. when compared to the skill required for rasengan, it's definitely not comparable.

and of course there is gonna be one spherical version of rasengan. if you had a nonspherical rasengan, would it really be the same thing?

edit: i havent really been in here in a while. uchihaeyes and GM, how you doin?

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by ifeanyi84

i'll look for the page later, but it has been stated that rasengan is shape manipulation at it's highest level. imo that is what makes rasenshuriken so dangerous. it's shape manipulation at it's highest level combined with an elemental recomposition of the element with the highest attacking power. sasuke's shapes that he uses with his lightning chakra arent even that serious. they show resourcefulness, but there is nothing that suggests that they take any increased skill. i think that to say that he was able to overcome kakashi's limitations by throwing lightning chakra needles is inaccurate.

Which is tougher to use is irrelevant tho. Sasuke's 100x more resourceful with chidori then Kakashi is, and could outmaneuver any rasengan Thrown by Kakashi.

when naruto was first learning elemental recomposition, he was able to emit wind chakra from his palms enough to cut a waterfall. the shapes that sasuke was using seem to be pretty trivial. when compared to the skill required for rasengan, it's definitely not comparable.

Once again a technique/weapon doesnt have to be difficult to use for it to be dangerous

I mean guns are extremly dangerous and all you do it point and shoot. A weapon is only as good as its user, a message clearly displayed by Sasuke's sharingan beating tsukuyomi.

and of course there is gonna be one spherical version of rasengan. if you had a nonspherical rasengan, would it really be the same thing?

Rasengan could be used the same way Sasuke uses his sword, execpt in the shape of a saw. That way it still has the rotation that creates damage, and can be hyperextended.

edit: i havent really been in here in a while. uchihaeyes and GM, how you doin?

I've been pretty good. Me n GM have had to tsukuyomi flame a few noobs a few times, but thats it.

Good to have you back man.

[ifeanyi84]

i feel you. just cuz a gun is better doesnt mean the user wins the shootout automatically. i just said that cuz in your previous post you said it wasnt spacial re composition at the highest level and seemed to suggest that sasuke's examples of spatial recomposition were bettter (or more tougher? i'm not sure what exactly you were saying now that i look back at your two previous posts).

Rasengan could be used the same way Sasuke uses his sword, execpt in the shape of a saw. That way it still has the rotation that creates damage, and can be hyperextended.

that would be a sort of dumbed down version. the rasengan has the chakra moving in all the different directions at once, as we could see from the different wind blades in the rasenshuriken. i mean i guess the chainsaw would be a similar idea, but not up there at all in terms of danger level.

i dont really know what to say about a lot of these battle threads any more. we have seen so much from sasuke, and relatively little from a lot of other characters(i'm speaking in terms of their current ability levels). we've never seen kakashi go hard like we've seen sasuke going hard recently. i think at this point, a lot of the sasuke conversations are slanted towards sasuke as much because of his merit as it is because of the lack of supporting evidence for the other characters.

I've been pretty good. Me n GM have had to tsukuyomi flame a few noobs a few times, but thats it.

Good to have you back man.

lol. thanks man.

[GiantMidget]

From all we have seen from Sasuke, he probably could beat kakashi. "That justu" actually lived up to the hype. But for now Until we see more of kakashi Sasuke wins.

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by ifeanyi84

i feel you. just cuz a gun is better doesnt mean the user wins the shootout automatically. i just said that cuz in your previous post you said it wasnt spacial re composition at the highest level and seemed to suggest that sasuke's examples of spatial recomposition were bettter (or more tougher? i'm not sure what exactly you were saying now that i look back at your two previous posts).

Your right my bad i sort've deviated from my point but my final point is that the difficulty to perform the jutsu doesnt necceesarily give insight to the greatness of it.

Just because rasengan is a high form or spatial manipulation doesnt make it better.

Because chidori can be used in such various and resourcful ways it definetly raises its level of greatness as a dangerous technique.

i mean i guess the chainsaw would be a similar idea, but not up there at all in terms of danger level.

Thats what i mean. The technique doesnt have to freakin rip the shinobi in half, it just needs to be used more efficiently instead of charging alot of power into one shot.

i dont really know what to say about a lot of these battle threads any more. we have seen so much from sasuke, and relatively little from a lot of other characters(i'm speaking in terms of their current ability levels). we've never seen kakashi go hard like we've seen sasuke going hard recently. i think at this point, a lot of the sasuke conversations are slanted towards sasuke as much because of his merit as it is because of the lack of supporting evidence for the other characters.

Couldnt have said it better if i tried.

[kaguyaclan]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

Speed=Sasuke>kakashi until kakashi opens gates
Experience=Sasuke<kakashi
Chakra=Sasuke>kakashi
Sharingan=just because Sasuke resisted the MS doesn't make it more powerful then an ms, it just makes it immune Tsyukyomi kakashi's MS is more physical mental.
Jutsus=Sasuke> kakashi
Intellect=Sasuke<Kakashi
Manipualtion=kakashi>Sasuke because they both have element, but kakashis shape manipulation is better, because it has been said that the rasengan was the "spacial recomposition at the higest level"

Kakashi doesn't know how to open the gates the only ppl in all of Konoha that know how to open the gates are Gai and Lee, even during the Chunin exam when Kakashi tried to follow lee when he opened the gates he phailed miserable he close his sharingan becasue be couldn't follow the speed so there is no way that he knows it because it takes a lot of hard wrk

[GiantMidget]

Originally Posted by kaguyaclan

Kakashi doesn't know how to open the gates the only ppl in all of Konoha that know how to open the gates are Gai and Lee, even during the Chunin exam when Kakashi tried to follow lee when he opened the gates he phailed miserable he close his sharingan becasue be couldn't follow the speed so there is no way that he knows it because it takes a lot of hard wrk

dude.... there was even a part where he had open his gates.

[Kataklyzm]

"The next generation will always surpass the previous one. It's one of the never-ending cycles in life." - Kakashi

Right now, those words couldn't be more true. As of now, I'd say Sasuke's power is beyond Kakashi's. Superior Sharingan, more diverse higher mastery Chidori manipulation, CS, and now regeneration from Orochimaru.

[endomilik]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

dude.... there was even a part where he had open his gates.

where does the part kakashi know how to use the Gate?

even Gai said he's faster than kakashi with out even opening gates..

so how does kakashi make faster? he doesnt even know how to open gates. only tai-jutsu expert can use that.

also it was only Gai who taught that to lee, I dont think Gai would teach kakashi how to use it.

[GiantMidget]

Originally Posted by endomilik

where does the part kakashi know how to use the Gate?

even Gai said he's faster than kakashi with out even opening gates..

so how does kakashi make faster? he doesnt even know how to open gates. only tai-jutsu expert can use that.

also it was only Gai who taught that to lee, I dont think Gai would teach kakashi how to use it.

This is exactly why you got banned you post BS when you don't get your facts straight.
kakashi opened his gates when he was climbing a mountain with one hand.

[Redshadow49]

ya its on chapter 93, right after the second stage of the chunin exam (sasuke asks kakashi to train him)

[endomilik]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

This is exactly why you got banned you post BS when you don't get your facts straight.
kakashi opened his gates when he was climbing a mountain with one hand.

He didnt open gate like Gai or Lee. I thought u were reffering the same move as Gai and Lee since when they open their gates they completely different.

Rock Lee is able to open the first five gates. Might Guy, who taught Lee the skill, is able to open at least six. Kakashi Hatake can open at least one gate, as shown while he is rock climbing where a shot of his brain shows the relevant point activating.

Just to make sure, 1 Gate does not help speed at all.
Because even kakashi could not keep up with Lee Speed.

Sasuke was able to match Lee speed (without his weight). now Sasuke who have shunsin jutsu which is faster before and he also mastered genjutsu.

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by endomilik

He didnt open gate like Gai or Lee. I thought u were reffering the same move as Gai and Lee since when they open their gates they completely different.

He only opened the first gate.

Gai and Lee opened up to the 6th or 7th.

But the fact that he opened up the 1st means he has the potential, and ability to open up the rest probably fairly easily.

[endomilik]

Originally Posted by Uchihaeyez

He only opened the first gate.

Gai and Lee opened up to the 6th or 7th.

But the fact that he opened up the 1st means he has the potential, and ability to open up the rest probably fairly easily.

We cannot come into that conclusion just because he can open the 1st Gate. 1st Gate (Brain focus) he can open the others already?

Note that Kakashi wasnt build as taijutsu user.

Also it said by kakashi himself that he been surpassed already by Naruto.

I dont think what kakashi said is a lie.

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by endomilik

We cannot come into that conclusion just because he can open the 1st Gate. 1st Gate (Brain focus) he can open the others already?

Note that Kakashi wasnt build as taijutsu user.

Also it said by kakashi himself that he been surpassed already by Naruto.

I dont think what kakashi said is a lie.

Naruto surpass kakashi in one aread of Ninjutsu, he hasnt beaten him on speed, hand seal speed, timing, indurance, experience, skill, quality and quanity of jutsu.

He's way behind him.

But because we've seen him do one, it means its probable he can do more.

No one said it was a fact.
But its damn near.

[GiantMidget]

Who said Kakashi isn't a taijutsu user, if he wasn't i doubt Gai would consider him a rival since all Gai does is tajutsu.