Kakashi vs Sasuke [spoilers]

[bluewingedD]

So naruto's smarter then Kakashi? Is that what you are saying.

Naruto, is a better tactenion then Kakashi? Is that what you are saying?

Naruto is a better leader then Kakashi?Is that what you are saying?

And just to clear this up, Jairya was stronger then pain. Pain said it himself, since you like referring to what characters say so much.

Pain said that if he hadn't kept his secrete of having six bodies as long as he did, that he would have NEVER been able to beat Jairya. So odiviously, Jairya was stronger then Pain. Pain just beat him with careful planning. The same way Kakashi would spank naruto with careful planning.

[ifeanyi84]

Originally Posted by slyfox87

this isnt world strongest man, if some one is stronger thats mean in every aspect, clearly jman wasnt stronger than pain he lost

you're right, this isnt world strogest man, and so you should know that strength isnt everything in naruto. as is often stated in these forums, this isnt dbz where power levels always determine the outcome of the fights. naruto is stronger or more powerful than kakashi, but he isnt nearly as skilled nor, is he as intelligent or as experienced. he wouldnt beat kakashi in a fight.

with all of that said, a match-up between naruto and kakashi is irrelevant because it has no bearing on the match-up between kakashi and sasuke. despite this, i think kakashi trumps sasuke for some of the same reasons, he's smarter, more experienced, and more skilled.

[bluelion7342]

Kakashi fights pretty conservatively. If he is opening gates, with MS, and doing all these powerful attacks he is gonna draining chakra worse than a 12cylinder SUV running on 1gal of fuel.

It is an enormous gamble for kakashi, because what if by chance sasuke doesnt die? or he manages to survive it somehow. THen kakashi is knocked out and defenseless. Were it up to him, i really doubt kakashi would go out like that. He may go one route but not all.

he can go the powerful jutsu route, or the MS route, or gates route, but i dont see him ding more than one at a time for a fight.

Knowing Kakashi he will likely go the MS route and hope for the best.

[hi its me]

Ok slyfox welcome to English for Idiots 101.

Firstly, Kakashi didn't actually say "he (Naruto) is stronger then me", he simply said "he (Naruto) has surpassed me". Now it may not seem like anything now but if you had some common-sense mixed with a bit of memory with a few drops of logical assumptions, Kakashi meant he surpassed him in creating a jutsu; a jutsu more powerful then Kakashi can create/simulate with his Sharingan.

End of Idiot lesson. Although since you annoy me and have limited (and i mean LIMITED) brain capacity I'll teach you more.
Kakashi has Naruto's worse enemy (IMO) in his arsenal. The Sharingan. And a well developed one I might add. Naruto's fighting style is basically KB > try to bash them > rasengan > trumpcard (RS). Sharingan can predict these things and Kakashi is able to counter accordingly. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if Kakashi wasn't able to have access to so many jutsus and if Kakashi hadn't encountered Naruto before fighting him.

Also with the Hokage thing. What do you mean he's not emotionally ready? That's like saying your not stupid. He's not ready because he doesn't have the qualities to lead an entire villiage. One of those qualities is power. He still lacks it. He can't become Hokage just by spamming KB, Rasengan and RS.

Sorry I've gone off so topic it's just fun to prove slyfox wrong .

[Girfinkle1]

Originally Posted by Uchihaeyez

Wtf? Your whole analogy made no sense. How the hell would kakashi slamming his chidori into sasuke's return the same amount of attack power? Your not even listening to your own explanation from earlier. Sasuke's chidori is in a current, while kakashi's is in the bodies fastest attainable speed, the arm thrust.

There's no way in hell the power would be equivalent.

thankyou for showing me the kind of stupidity i'm dealing with u dumbass what i just said is an entire fucking science lesson it was fucking proven. say u fall onto a spike fallling 20mph the spikes going to pierce u. what if u have a spike thrown at u at 20mph same result . you can't say my damn analogy is wrong if its a fucking science lesson

Originally Posted by ifeanyi84

kakashi clearly thought he could deal with itachi's genjutsu. he didnt know about tsukyomi at the time and thus he lost. if you read and comprehended what i said, my point is simply that kakashi is adept with genjutsu. until itachi used tsukyomi, kakashi matched itachi and was able to protect asuma and kurenai at the same time.
you said that sasuke can do whatever he wants with lightning and fire and yet sasuke has not shown a fire jutsu since the time-skip. also, the fact remains that raikiri is a higher rank jutsu than sasuke's chidori.

wow dude ur also pretty stupid the riaki is the damn chidori its all packing chakra into ur fist as lightning. sasukes secret jutsu is a form of the kaiten and we'll see it this match we know its a kaiten because he used a tiger seal and that starts all of sasukes fire attacks. and did u notice that when kakashi came itachi didn't even try to attack them? itachi went strait for kakashi and u can't say well kakashi thought he could handle all of itachis genjutsus whenhe didn't handle any of them. he got own u can't go off of what kakashi though he could do b/c u say it urself showing is better than words and kakashi didn't step up anywhere near what he was talking about. not to mention u said kakashi deffended kunria and asuma. when itachi actually tried itachi was on the ground.

there is no way to say that sasuke's taijutsu has suddenly improved from what it was. we know that kakashi was and is very skilled with taijutsu, but from sasuke we have not seen any examples that would illustrate his growth in that area.

thats a load off bullshit and u know it uchiha madra has commented on sasukes tiajutsu and sasuke has kept up with itachi kakashi can't even say that

kakashi did more than barely dodge itachi's attacks. he was able to fight evenly with itachi while still looking out for kurenai.

another load of crap kakashi was completely exausted and itachi barely did anything kakashi said it himself itachi wasn't even trying! not to mention kakashi was almost on emty and he didn't look out for kunria he defender her from 1 attack itachi could have defeated kakashi anytime he wanted too.

sasuke's speed with shuinshin may be about equal to kakashi's but i think that otherwise he falls short.

once again a stupid comment sasuke has been able to do more than keep up with itachi and kakashi spent so much time barely able to defend that he couldn't even launch a deceant attack. sasuke on the other hand out clone battled itachi and was one step ahead of the real itachi kakashi was nowhere near that level of tiajutsu

you also said that sasuke's vision is better than kakashi's as if it's a fact when the manga has yet to show evidence of that.
i would also like to point out that you glossed over the part about battle experience or knowledge. in that area, kakashi is hands down, unequivocally better than sasuke. kakashi has been a jounin for a sasuke's entire life and has been called the leaf's #1 tactician. sasuke's little fight experience is even close to the war experience that kakashi has. not to mention that kakashi is as smart as or smarter than shikamaru(i cant remember which one of them was stated) and sasuke isnt even close in this arena. sasuke has more stamina than kakashi, but that's about the only thing that he has more of.

he is not smarter obviously kakashi isn't as smart as shikamaru he was utterly amazed when he realized shikas full intellectual abilities. sasuke has been training under oro and has defeated countless ninja not to mention in every battle hes been in he critizied his enemies strategy. he even out strategized an anbu ninja he knows what hes doing/ oh and forget about length of rank we saw kakashi as a jounin when he first started he was just a brat he wasn't very strong at all. and the vision thing is a given this is trig now i don't know if u guys are at this level if u couldn't comprehend 8th grade science. look through ur left eye and put a clear piece of platic over ur right u can see but nor as clear right? now take the papaer off and whallah u have sasuke with 2 sharingans not 1 like kakashi has.

sasuke was like a lesser version of kakashi until he went to orochimaru. now he's better than he was, and has some things that differentiate him from a kakashi a little more, but he's still not gonna take out kakashi yet.

think of him as a prodegy of kakashi it took kakashi until he was a jounin to master the chidori. not only that but he didn't have the sharingan until he was a jounin. sasuke had the sharingan alot earlier than kakashi did and was able to learn quicker than kakashi. sasuke was able ot match the speed of lee whos been training tiajutsu all of his life in less 2 months. he was able to have jounin skills at a genin level. than he went and trained with oro (who made scared kakashi by just walking near him) and trained non stop with oro. his tiajutsu is amazing and his control is amazing he would put up more than a fight for kakashi

and can we please stop referrencing the sasuke/itachi fight until after the fight is actually over and the action can be appreciated in context for what it really is? i dont see the point of comparing sasuke and itachi off of their fight, when we dont even know what's really real and what's not.

no its a sasuke fight so it counts and it shows of sasukes abilities.

[GiantMidget]

I don't see how comparing their fights with Itachi has to do with anything, kakashi is now resistant to the tsuykyomi, kakashi was able to keep up with itachi as well as to protect Kurenai who can't do shit. He was unaware of the MS thats what fucked him over, he though Itachi was gonna use genjutsus which he was confident he was ready for because he told the others to close their eyes while he didnt.
Sasuke does not have taijutsu better then kakashi, all he had done so far with itachi is a genjutsu battle.
Also kakashi might only have one sharingan, but he has MS while Sasuke does not.
What you mean kakashi was nothing when he was Sasukes age? he was jounin already when he was Sasuks age, he soared through the ranks just as fast as Itachi did even when he was not an uchiha.
Also he was amazed because he never knew shikamaru was so smart, he's liek a veteran he has done hundreds of a rank missions and had been a jounin shikamau's whole life, if you see a beginner that is almost as smart as you you would be surprised too, it doesn't mean he's not as smart as him.
outsmarting ANBU means nothing when Elite Jounins>ANBU

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by Girfinkle1

thankyou for showing me the kind of stupidity i'm dealing with u dumbass what i just said is an entire fucking science lesson it was fucking proven. say u fall onto a spike fallling 20mph the spikes going to pierce u. what if u have a spike thrown at u at 20mph same result . you can't say my damn analogy is wrong if its a fucking science lesson.

I'm going to show you what i mean when i said your explanation didnt make sense.

1. It's not like sending a 20mph spike onto another spike, since kakashi's rakiri and sasuke's chidori nagashi have different form. Kakashi's is in the shape of a blade because his hand is used as a medium for shape manipulation. It'd be like slamming a 20mph spike into a mobile square. The square would be pierced. And THANK YOU for showing ME the kind of stupiding I'm dealing with.`

[Girfinkle1]

your welcome but sasukes chidori nagashi isn't realy a square its like a bunch of mini spikes that grow depending on the amount of chakra put into the burst that paralyze their opponent so once sasuke hits to totally open kakashi with the chidori nagashi kakashi is paralyzed!

[GiantMidget]

Originally Posted by Girfinkle1

your welcome but sasukes chidori nagashi isn't realy a square its like a bunch of mini spikes that grow depending on the amount of chakra put into the burst that paralyze their opponent so once sasuke hits to totally open kakashi with the chidori nagashi kakashi is paralyzed!

Not really, think of it this way the chidori nagashi is like a suit of electricity might electrocute the attacker its not like armor, but it doesn't take away the damage, but in this case we do not know if a hand that is also covered lighting will be affected.

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by Girfinkle1

your welcome but sasukes chidori nagashi isn't realy a square its like a bunch of mini spikes that grow depending on the amount of chakra put into the burst that paralyze their opponent so once sasuke hits to totally open kakashi with the chidori nagashi kakashi is paralyzed!

Not really. You fail to realize that Sasuke's chidori nagashi is a current. It's someone like a circuit of energy constantly flowing. Do you know what happenes when you cut a circuit from is main source. The current stops.

And besides even if by some grace of god kakashi got hit after piercing sasuke that wouldnt stop his body activation, or the Raikiri from putting a huge ass hole in sasuke.

[GiantMidget]

lets think about this for a while, whats stronger? Sasukes body with a little electric current that paralyzes people for a few minutes or a lighting bolt? hmmmm?

[Uchihaeyez]

Originally Posted by GiantMidget

lets think about this for a while, whats stronger? Sasukes body with a little electric current that paralyzes people for a few minutes or a lighting bolt? hmmmm?

My point exactly.

Kakashi's extremly fast body activation would punch holes in sasuke like a stapler.

And i just wish this guy would say, oh you guys are just kakashi fans, like slyfox did.

I'm a huge sasuke fan, but i dont let that get in the way of reason.

[GiantMidget]

and also slyfox the "plot no jutsu" i mention before is kinda similar to this Deus ex machina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ifeanyi84]

Originally Posted by Girfinkle1

thankyou for showing me the kind of stupidity i'm dealing with u dumbass what i just said is an entire fucking science lesson it was fucking proven. say u fall onto a spike fallling 20mph the spikes going to pierce u. what if u have a spike thrown at u at 20mph same result . you can't say my damn analogy is wrong if its a fucking science lesson

wow dude ur also pretty stupid the riaki is the damn chidori its all packing chakra into ur fist as lightning. sasukes secret jutsu is a form of the kaiten and we'll see it this match we know its a kaiten because he used a tiger seal and that starts all of sasukes fire attacks. and did u notice that when kakashi came itachi didn't even try to attack them? itachi went strait for kakashi and u can't say well kakashi thought he could handle all of itachis genjutsus whenhe didn't handle any of them. he got own u can't go off of what kakashi though he could do b/c u say it urself showing is better than words and kakashi didn't step up anywhere near what he was talking about. not to mention u said kakashi deffended kunria and asuma. when itachi actually tried itachi was on the ground.
thats a load off bullshit and u know it uchiha madra has commented on sasukes tiajutsu and sasuke has kept up with itachi kakashi can't even say that
another load of crap kakashi was completely exausted and itachi barely did anything kakashi said it himself itachi wasn't even trying! not to mention kakashi was almost on emty and he didn't look out for kunria he defender her from 1 attack itachi could have defeated kakashi anytime he wanted too.
once again a stupid comment sasuke has been able to do more than keep up with itachi and kakashi spent so much time barely able to defend that he couldn't even launch a deceant attack. sasuke on the other hand out clone battled itachi and was one step ahead of the real itachi kakashi was nowhere near that level of tiajutsu
he is not smarter obviously kakashi isn't as smart as shikamaru he was utterly amazed when he realized shikas full intellectual abilities. sasuke has been training under oro and has defeated countless ninja not to mention in every battle hes been in he critizied his enemies strategy. he even out strategized an anbu ninja he knows what hes doing/ oh and forget about length of rank we saw kakashi as a jounin when he first started he was just a brat he wasn't very strong at all. and the vision thing is a given this is trig now i don't know if u guys are at this level if u couldn't comprehend 8th grade science. look through ur left eye and put a clear piece of platic over ur right u can see but nor as clear right? now take the papaer off and whallah u have sasuke with 2 sharingans not 1 like kakashi has.
think of him as a prodegy of kakashi it took kakashi until he was a jounin to master the chidori. not only that but he didn't have the sharingan until he was a jounin. sasuke had the sharingan alot earlier than kakashi did and was able to learn quicker than kakashi. sasuke was able ot match the speed of lee whos been training tiajutsu all of his life in less 2 months. he was able to have jounin skills at a genin level. than he went and trained with oro (who made scared kakashi by just walking near him) and trained non stop with oro. his tiajutsu is amazing and his control is amazing he would put up more than a fight for kakashi


no its a sasuke fight so it counts and it shows of sasukes abilities.

neither your tree example nor your spike example are an accurate model of what would happen if kakashi used raikiri against sasuke's chidori nagashi.

point by point, i'll break down the fallacies in your post. 1)since you onviously dont know, the raikiri and chidori are two separate jutsus listed in the databooks. the raikiri is a higher rank jutsu than chidori. before you start typing next time, please know what you're saying.
2)once again, you clearly dont know what you're talking about. i dont see how or why you think that sasuke's secret jutsu has anything at all to do with kaiten, but you're wrong. kaiten is a jutsu that can only be performed by a byakugan user as far as we know. i dont know what fire has to do with kaiten, but it doesnt matter, because as i said in an earlier post, we have yet to see any fire techniques from sasuke after the time-skip.
3)what i said in my post, and i'll repeat it here, is that kakashi is adept at genjutsu. i dont know how you have a problem with that, it's a fact. deal with it. he protected asuma from kisame and saved kurenai from an itachi. he told them not to look into itachi's eyes so that they could avoid his genjutsu and while he himself looked directly into itachi's eyes.
4)madara made no comments on sasuke's taijutsu and if he did, please show them to me. kakashi kept up with itachi on two occasions. on the first he lost because to itachi's tsukyomi.
5)i'm not sure why you are pushing the issue of sasuke's taijutsu skills, but kakashi has superior taijutsu skills to sasuke. you say that sasuke "out clone battled" itachi, and that kakashi is nowhere near that level of taijutsu, but sasuke's clone lost to itachi's clone in taijutsu and it was genjutsu that sasuke used to seemingly get into position to stab itachi. considering that we havent seen the next chapter and dont even know if that is itachi, i'm not sure how any of that even matters. what i am sure is that if anything, all that sasuke showed was genjutsu proficiency. getting kicked in the face and then slammed on his head certainly does not indicate that his taijutsu was on par with itachi's.
6)sorry buddy, but the manga says that kakashi is smarter than shikamaru. kakashi is said to be smarter than shikamaru, has a better sense of smell than kiba, a better sharingan than sasuke, and better taijutsu than lee. kakashi himself also confirms that he has a brain like shikamaru's. that makes him much smarter than sasuke and much more experienced in battle.
7)that thing about one versus two is a bit incorrect. seeing with one eye affects your depth perception, but doesnt actually affect the things that are visible to you. considering that the sharingan is not even close to being a normal eye and we dont know how it works, it's possible, even probable, that we this isnt even an issue with the sharingan.
8)it took kakashi until he was jounin to create chidori, not to master it. there's a big difference. kakashi was a genius before getting his sharingan. he clearly had no problems learning before he got his sharingan. there's also the fact that he has had a sharingan for all of sasuke's life. there's a big difference between what kakashi knows and what sasuke knows.
9)kakashi helped sasuke use shuinshin and lee's fighting style imitate the speed that lee was using in his fight with gaara. the chidori is the only jouni level skill sasuke had as a genin, and all of the konoha genin in the chunin exam finals had a jounin level skill. naruto had his gamabunta summon, neji had his kaiten and 64 palm attack, shikamaru had his intelligence.

once again...i asked if we can put the sasuke/itachi stuff on hold because we dont even know what's real and what's not at this point. for all we know, kishimoto has us all in genjutsu thinking that itachi's actually fighting sasuke and he's not. we wont know what any of the stuff in this chapter means, until the fight moves forward. if itachi on that throne is a genjutsu and sasuke and itachi just end up talking, you wont be so quick to start yapping about sasuke in that case. there's nothing wrong with waiting to know for sure, before you go and start talking about it like it's fact.

[Girfinkle1]

damn i h8 reading long posts
1 they're both lightning stabs and well thats all chapter 113 page 14 gai clearly states kakashis attack is the chidori. somewhere else he says he changed the name after cutting the lightning bolt.
2 whoops i meant katon sound alike but there are so many clues and well we'll see but i'm willing to bet money it is
3not once in that fight did kakashi use genjutsu skills he thought he could handle it because the sharingan is immune to genjutsu.
4 show me when kakashi kept up with itachi and i'm not talking about barely keeping up i'm talking bout him being there step by step. and at the beggining of the dd battle tobi commented sasukes tiajutsu saying it was extradordinarily fast not to mention madra is watching sasuke and hes the strongest person in narutoverse thats gotta be worth something.
5sasuke wasn't the one kicked in the face and spike though and he used both tia and gen to get behind itachi (which has got to be a fact the fact is though we haven't see itachi lose a taijutsu battle and sasuke was able to keep up with itachi without using the cs
6 alright i'm sorry but that was a stupid cause because if ur going to say that than the manga said naruto was stronger than kakashi and naruto sure as hell isn't at sasukes level so if u go by what people are saying sasuke is stronger than kakashi but we go by show here on the battle forums and if kakashi had a bettersence of smell than kiba than he wouldn't need nin dogs (who kiba outsmelled) Kakashi would have been making the plans and shika would be listening to them if kakashi was smarter. naruto had no clue what sasuke could do with his shringan because he hadn't seen him in over 2.5 years. and well we both know j man has better nin than kakashi
7 if that was true than kakashi should be able to beat itachi in a sharingan duel which was obviously not the case and my stement is just well logical.
8 not from what we've seen because they've both demonstrated kage level skills and well kakashi was one cocky kid when he was younger he didn't listen to any1 and he was stuck up true he was good but as soon as obito gain his sharingan kakashi was out done by obito. not to mention sasuke mastered the chidori past kakashi now and he was able to use it better than kakashi when kakashi first got it. oro made kakashi look like a school girl and obviously taught sasuke alot becuase of their little death bed conversation so sasuke knows quite a bit.
9well sasuke actually had 2 jounin level attributes, his speed and the chidori not to mention the cs that puts him up completely to a jounin level (karin had a spew on that) so sasuke had alot going for him
i'm still going to use the itachi sasuke battle because it helps my point if kakashi was fighting itachi right now u could use him to but hes not and we've both scene enough naruto to know whats real and whats not, itachi is obviously a clone hes going to start kicking sasukes ass than sasuke is going to break out the cs2 itachi is going to use the mangekyo sasuke going to use his secret jutsu than the rest is in the air kisi normally makes the rest up.

[GiantMidget]

Originally Posted by ultirenegade

wtf. eople are still questioning this? i thought it would be obvious by now that sasuke would dominate kakashi. the people in this forum are just.........

no its not obvious that sasuke would dominate Kakashi, geez people like ultirenegade are just ........
Tell me inwhich aspect are Sasuke superior to kakashi? genjutsus? kakashi was able to deal with itachis genjutsu so theres no problem with that taijutsu? kakashi has taijutsu better then lee and a more developed Sharingan then Sasuke at this point, speed? kakashi is fast to begin with as he kept up with Itachi in speed before he lost to Itachis MS which he has now also. Intelligence? he is smarter then shikmaru, not to mention he also has gates and more battle experience.