Uchiha Itachi vs Jiraiya

[Alexandrius]

Originally Posted by Ltd.

@ Alex

Itachi = Sharingan = justsu copy + unstopable gen jutsu

Damnit people won't forget the rank part won't they.
Kakashi's dad = Jounin yet still he was considerd on the same powerscale so Rank is bull in the Naruto universe there are some occasions where it does matter but not in this one.

Eh no... The White Fang had respect that ranked as high as the legendary Sannins. Rank means everything. The Sannins are considered the strongest people on the face of the earth. Basicly Itachi has no chance to win. As he admitted it himself. Go watch the Anime the statement comes alot clearly up there.

And to point it out. NMR's typesetters sucks, so does theire QC'er.

[San Goku]

Toad Hermit wins, on top of that he knows how to deal with Gen jutsu fighters very well, he taught Naruto how to deal with Gen jutsu's.

[miracle]

Originally Posted by Tony

Jyraiya..By words of Itachi himself..He and Kisame at best could only acomplish to kill jyraiya while dieing themselves.

right there. read the damn subtitles if you can

[freakzilla]

Originally Posted by Octogon

That quote does have some signifigance, if you think about it.
Itachi did have something to base Jirayas strengh off of, and that was Oro. Oro said Itachi was stronger than him. Meaning he has an idea of Itachis power and vic-versa. And if Itachi based all of what he said about jiraya on reputaion, then he would be more confident. Seeing as how he has seen oro. And problaey seen his power as well. and since they are both sannin, why would he think Jiraya was in another league than Oro?

You do know that Akatsuki doesn't really know much about each others techniques don't you? Let alone skill level...

Originally Posted by Octogon

And I still go with that Oro measured Itachis strengh by his potiental to learn all the jutsus in the world. He even said saskue has a higher otiental than him. Why? Most likley because of the sharingan. but saskue hasn't reached the point where he can surpass Oro.

1. the 3rd, THE professor of jutsus, Oro challenged the guy to a fight without even expecting to loose a thing.
2. Kakashi, over 1000 jutsus ans still going, yet he taunted Kakashi till Kakashi shit his pants
3. Sasuke has the potential, exactly! Thanks for giving me the best example! Itachi doesn't have the potential, he passed Oro's limit and thus now Oro fears him. Sasuke has the potential but hasn't passed Oro's limit and we sure as hell don't see Oro fear Sasuke do we?

Originally Posted by Octogon

And Itachi is from Konoha. It's not too far-fetched that he has seen the other sannin in acton before.

Tsunade has been away from Konoha for years, so has Jiraiya and Oro. When they are in Konoha they have always been on missions, and those three go alone. On top of all that they haven't even held contact with Konoha before Oro started moving. I truely really don't see how Itachi could have seen them in action.

Originally Posted by Tony

You can't argue a direct quote.
It was in no way aimed for interpretation, it was as clear and direct as it gets.

"At best, we could have only hoped but to kill that man, sacrifising both of ourselfs."

Meaning that Kisame and Itachi together at best could kill Jyraiya by sacrifising themselves.

What Itachi did and said after "We wil die fighting him" was completely different that the quote suggested. Itachi had used mangekyou twice (which is about 60% of his chakra), and he still managed to escape Jiraiya's prison which Jiraiya never expected possible. And he ran because he was out of chakra and needed to rest (he said so himself).

Originally Posted by Tony

You guys are underestimating jyraiya way too much..who ran like little bitches, when they had him outnumbered 2-1?

And you overestimate him, seen how surprised he was when Itachi escaped? Again the chakra comment now. IMO Itachi = Jiraiya, adding Kisame to it would be too much for him.

Originally Posted by Tony

Edit: chekd some other version of the same chapter..Not all are alike, but they are very similar..they all hint at "we ran away becasue we were scared"

Risking your life or sure death is a big difference. Not to forget that Jiraiya was pretty new to the series at that time, so a little hype would be usefull. Since Itachi was already hyped from the very start.

Originally Posted by Tony

Even if Itachi was weakened by the Mangaekyo, he still had a 100% very strong Kisame (we nkow he is quite strong, a 30% of his powers was prety damm strong to take on 2 strong chunnins, a jounin, and an elite jounin pushed nearly to the max..only 30% of his powers)

Itachi didn't know about Jiraiya's style and Kisame is too reckless. If Jiraiya was a strategist he could exploit Kisame's weak points and take him out fast. Not only did Itachi avoid trouble, he also saved his partner and himself (twice mangakyou would be about 60% chakra wouldn't it?).

[miracle]

Originally Posted by freakzilla

What Itachi did and said after "We wil die fighting him" was completely different that the quote suggested. Itachi had used mangekyou twice (which is about 60% of his chakra), and he still managed to escape Jiraiya's prison which Jiraiya never expected possible. And he ran because he was out of chakra and needed to rest (he said so himself).

well that quote proves tony's point.

[freakzilla]

How so? Itachi got into the battle weakened. It proves Itachi ran because the advantage Jiraiya had was too big

[Apoo]

Originally Posted by freakzilla

What Itachi did and said after "We wil die fighting him" was completely different that the quote suggested. Itachi had used mangekyou twice (which is about 60% of his chakra), and he still managed to escape Jiraiya's prison which Jiraiya never expected possible. And he ran because he was out of chakra and needed to rest (he said so himself).

I don't know where you got the percentage from, I don't remeber been stated so.

Now, why you put Kisame below Itachi is beyond me, He is a very strong akatsuki, Just as strong as Itachi, and nothing can proove otherwise, except that Kisame respects Itachi.

you can call it the way Deidara respected Sasori, but their skill levels weren't too far appart. Kisame is preety capable of fighting by himself, he has a ton of chakra; tons of defensive water Jutsu; long range and close range fighter; and can make the battlefield advantageous to himself..all of this using less than 30% of his powers..A preety solid fighter.

Add to that the 40% (as you claim) Itachi, which I admit was not as his best, but was still capable of fighting, and had just used his sharingan vs Sasuke recklesly, to further proof the point that he was not in that big of a peril.

You have 100% chakra best, good solid fighter, plus a weaker, but still very capable of fighting Itachi..and who again was at a disadvantage?

Originally Posted by freakzilla

And you overestimate him, seen how surprised he was when Itachi escaped? Again the chakra comment now. IMO Itachi = Jiraiya, adding Kisame to it would be too much for him.

Being Surprised at how Itachi escaped barely means anything...In what way does that hint at the winner of that fight?

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Risking your life or sure death is a big difference. Not to forget that Jiraiya was pretty new to the series at that time, so a little hype would be usefull. Since Itachi was already hyped from the very start.

It does when it's a 2 vs 1 (or 1 1/2 vs 1)..It does when Jyraiya was outnumbered, and at the disadvantage.

the translations vary, but all hint at "we would have gotten our asses handed"

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Itachi didn't know about Jiraiya's style and Kisame is too reckless. If Jiraiya was a strategist he could exploit Kisame's weak points and take him out fast. Not only did Itachi avoid trouble, he also saved his partner and himself (twice mangakyou would be about 60% chakra wouldn't it?).

What excatly are you claiming? Exploiting your opponets weaknesses (Kisame's recklesness) is part of fighting as well.

In the End, you cannot deny that they had the upper hand, as it was 2 vs 1, and they still ran.

In the situation they were in..Capturing Naruto would NEVER be as easy as that..Certainly worth fighting for..when they had the upper hand. (Jyraiya also had no idea of their abilities), but they ran...

[lilchillin1435]

itachi will win

[freakzilla]

Originally Posted by Tony

[font=Comic Sans MS]
I don't know where you got the percentage from, I don't remeber been stated so.

Seeing as how Itachi couldn't use mangekyou when he was using 30% of his chakra.

Originally Posted by Tony

Now, why you put Kisame below Itachi is beyond me, He is a very strong akatsuki, Just as strong as Itachi, and nothing can proove otherwise, except that Kisame respects Itachi

Not only respect, but at times he says he cannot do the things Itachi can. He doesn't take back at all when Kisame can't take Kakashi as easily as he can. And stuff like that

Originally Posted by Tony

You have 100% chakra best, good solid fighter, plus a weaker, but still very capable of fighting Itachi..and who again was at a disadvantage?

Itachi needs to keep Kisame under control so that he doesn't go wild, but seeing his condition he was no match for Jiraiya at the time. So restraining Kisame would be dumb, yet Jiraiya can exploit Kisame hotheadedness. More in numbers isn't always an advantage.

Originally Posted by Tony

Being Surprised at how Itachi escaped barely means anything...In what way does that hint at the winner of that fight?

Never said it does, just saying it doesn't point out Jiraiya beats them so easily as you imply. That was one of his strongest jutsus and yet it was still rendered useless.

Originally Posted by Tony

the translations vary, but all hint at "we would have gotten our asses handed"

I care more about the convo between Kisame and Itachi after it since that is when they have actually seen Jiraiya fight, and haven't based their thinking on rumours.

Originally Posted by Tony

In the situation they were in..Capturing Naruto would NEVER be as easy as that..Certainly worth fighting for..when they had the upper hand. (Jyraiya also had no idea of their abilities), but they ran...

Don't forget Jiraiya told them everything he knew. Their purpose, Kisame's status, ... In terms of information Jiraiya had the advantage by far.

[Octogon]

Originally Posted by freakzilla

You do know that Akatsuki doesn't really know much about each others techniques don't you? Let alone skill level...

Then how would Oro have any idea of Itachi's strengh?

1. the 3rd, THE professor of jutsus, Oro challenged the guy to a fight without even expecting to loose a thing.

BS. It wasn't exactly easy for Oro and there were moments where sarutobi took pity on him. Ten years ago Surutobu would have had mopped the floor with him. Meaning for 10 years he bided his time waiting to kill the Hokage.

2. Kakashi, over 1000 jutsus ans still going, yet he taunted Kakashi till Kakashi shit his pants

All jutsus > 100 Jutsus. Besides it's not like Kakashi could use any of his jutsus to Oros level. Even if Kakashi had known 10,000 jutsus he wasn't at the level where they could cause damage to Oro.

3. Sasuke has the potential, exactly! Thanks for giving me the best example! Itachi doesn't have the potential, he passed Oro's limit and thus now Oro fears him. Sasuke has the potential but hasn't passed Oro's limit and we sure as hell don't see Oro fear Sasuke do we?

Oro even said, "Things would be much easier if I could use Itachi". Where you got the idea Itachi doesn't have potiental, I have no idea. He is a freakin' genius, with sharingan.

Tsunade has been away from Konoha for years, so has Jiraiya and Oro. When they are in Konoha they have always been on missions, and those three go alone. On top of all that they haven't even held contact with Konoha before Oro started moving. I truely really don't see how Itachi could have seen them in action.

Itachi knew Jiraya was Jiraya. that alone means he knew how he looked like. Naruto didn't know Jiraya by appearance. The only people who did were jounins from konoha. Even people outside konoha, knew of the sannin. but they couldn't identify them by looks.

What Itachi did and said after "We wil die fighting him" was completely different that the quote suggested. Itachi had used mangekyou twice (which is about 60% of his chakra), and he still managed to escape Jiraiya's prison which Jiraiya never expected possible. And he ran because he was out of chakra and needed to rest (he said so himself).

He still had the strengh to use the black fire thing. meaning your percentage thing is wrong. And even if it was he had Kisame with him as well. Who I assure you is no weakling. Yes, he escaped the prisn. but that doesn't change the fact that he ran away.

And you overestimate him, seen how surprised he was when Itachi escaped? Again the chakra comment now. IMO Itachi = Jiraiya, adding Kisame to it would be too much for him.

Itachi ran away. you can't deny that. why he ran away? Fear of dying.

Risking your life or sure death is a big difference. Not to forget that Jiraiya was pretty new to the series at that time, so a little hype would be usefull. Since Itachi was already hyped from the very start.

This proves nothing,whatsoever.

Itachi didn't know about Jiraiya's style and Kisame is too reckless. If Jiraiya was a strategist he could exploit Kisame's weak points and take him out fast. Not only did Itachi avoid trouble, he also saved his partner and himself (twice mangakyou would be about 60% chakra wouldn't it?).

By running away...

[Apoo]

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Seeing as how Itachi couldn't use mangekyou when he was using 30% of his chakra.
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He could use Mangekyu here, and like Octogon pointed out, your percentage theory is flawed; as Itachi used Amateratsu without a problem. He wasn't in as big of a peril as you put him in.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Not only respect, but at times he says he cannot do the things Itachi can. He doesn't take back at all when Kisame can't take Kakashi as easily as he can. And stuff like that[/font]

He is still a very strong opponent, Just as strong as Itachi, Itachi has a warrior at his side. Kisame can do a little bit of everything, you underate him too much, as you overrate Itachi.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Itachi needs to keep Kisame under control so that he doesn't go wild, but seeing his condition he was no match for Jiraiya at the time. So restraining Kisame would be dumb, yet Jiraiya can exploit Kisame hotheadedness. More in numbers isn't always an advantage.
[/font]

You're describing Kisame as frigging Kyubi, that goes crazy and wild and never thinks. That's BS. Yeah Kisame is not the calmest of guys, but he still preety smart, and not as reckless as you say, he has a Kenpachi-like attititude, but he does not lack brains and common sense. He knows a cornocopea of Jutsu..You're describing the situation as if Itachi had to keep a leash on Kisame, which is evidently false.

There was NO disadvantage for Itachi's side.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Never said it does, just saying it doesn't point out Jiraiya beats them so easily as you imply. That was one of his strongest jutsus and yet it was still rendered useless.

I don't recall saying that it would be the easiets of fights. I also don't recall it anywhere being stated that the wall was one of Jyraiya's strongests jutsu. From the looks of it, it looks like a regular jutsu from him.

Also, the fact that Itachi used Amateratsu to break through the wall says two things.

1- Itachi needed such a strong jutsu to brake the wall

2-He had enough energy to use that kind of jutsu level, meaning he was not as badly tired/wounded as you'd like him to be.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

I care more about the convo between Kisame and Itachi after it since that is when they have actually seen Jiraiya fight, and haven't based their thinking on rumours.

If you want to be fair..Itachi knew Oro quite well, he should have ideas as to the power of a Sannin.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Don't forget Jiraiya told them everything he knew. Their purpose, Kisame's status, ... In terms of information Jiraiya had the advantage by far.

Big BS. I've already stated why he was at the disadvantage, but let me add a couple of things to it.

He had Naruto and Sasuke to protect aswell..Still not enough of a disadvantage for you?

[freakzilla]

Octogon, i'm not gonna reply to you. Every single one of my quotes you just either twisted my words or agreed to me thinking your proving me wrong

Originally Posted by Tony

He could use Mangekyu here, and like Octogon pointed out, your percentage theory is flawed; as Itachi used Amateratsu without a problem. He wasn't in as big of a peril as you put him in.

Itachi said it himself that he couldn't use mangekyou, he still had 40% of his chakra left to escape. Then he used Amateratsu to escape using most of that. Percentage theory flawed, well let's see, it is the ONLY time i have ever seen Itachi undo his sharingan. Says enough don't it? He needed to rest badly.

Originally Posted by Tony

He is still a very strong opponent, Just as strong as Itachi, Itachi has a warrior at his side. Kisame can do a little bit of everything, you underate him too much, as you overrate Itachi.

Itachi owned Kakashi in no time while he said the fight between Kisame and Kakashi would drag out too long. Sorry, but that isn't enough backup against Jiraiya and Itachi knew it.

Originally Posted by Tony

You're describing Kisame as frigging Kyubi, that goes crazy and wild and never thinks. That's BS. Yeah Kisame is not the calmest of guys, but he still preety smart, and not as reckless as you say, he has a Kenpachi-like attititude, but he does not lack brains and common sense. He knows a cornocopea of Jutsu..You're describing the situation as if Itachi had to keep a leash on Kisame, which is evidently false.

Kisame likes long battles, he tends to play around. I never compared him to kyuubi, but i am pointing out that kind of fighting style has weaknesses in a battle of such a level.

Originally Posted by Tony

I don't recall saying that it would be the easiets of fights. I also don't recall it anywhere being stated that the wall was one of Jyraiya's strongests jutsu. From the looks of it, it looks like a regular jutsu from him.

His special prison where no one has ever broken free from?
"He even escaped from the frog's stomach, what on Earth did this guy pull of to get out of here?"
"You two cannot escape anymore, i will finish you off right here and now?"
Everything said shows us this was a jutsu Jiraiya is proud off and was sure off could keep two, who he knew where extremely strong, fighters inside.

Originally Posted by Tony

If you want to be fair..Itachi knew Oro quite well, he should have ideas as to the power of a Sannin.

As i've said, we've seen that not all Akatsuki members know each other that well. Not only that but i doubt Oro is the type to show off everything he's got. So even if Itachi knew Oro, he would have no idea what his real ability is.

Originally Posted by Tony

Big BS. I've already stated why he was at the disadvantage, but let me add a couple of things to it.

He had Naruto and Sasuke to protect aswell..Still not enough of a disadvantage for you?

Jiraiya:
- Itachi had more people
- Jiraiya had more people to defend

Itachi:
- Didn't have enough backup with his chakra level
- Broke free from an "inescapable" jutsu

Jiraiya had his frog stomach to somewhat cancel out his disadvantages, Itachi couldn't grow more chakra on the spot

[Xerrogah]

If Itachi is at full strenghth, he would win. When Itachi saw Jiraiya the first time, Itachi was weak from usin Mangekyo sharingan alredy.

[Apoo]

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Itachi said it himself that he couldn't use mangekyou, he still had 40% of his chakra left to escape. Then he used Amateratsu to escape using most of that. Percentage theory flawed, well let's see, it is the ONLY time i have ever seen Itachi undo his sharingan. Says enough don't it? He needed to rest badly.

Hmm, I don't remember that, Can you please provide the link? If I recall, he used it on Sasuke, and he had energy left to use Amateratsu. Yes he was weakend, but not to the point that you'd like him to be.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Itachi owned Kakashi in no time while he said the fight between Kisame and Kakashi would drag out too long. Sorry, but that isn't enough backup against Jiraiya and Itachi knew it.

words don't justify action. Gai which=Kakashi,Jounin Neji,Lee,and Ten-Ten couden't keep up with a 30% Kisame.

We've laso seen plenty of jutsu from kisame that can end shit quick. What itachi ment that it would take way too long compared to how fast he could finish it with Mangekyo, which was 1-2 seconds.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Kisame likes long battles, he tends to play around. I never compared him to kyuubi, but i am pointing out that kind of fighting style has weaknesses in a battle of such a level.

I doubt that'd be the case if he was fighting an opponet this level, He's battle has no such weaknes..and you've yet to show proof of it.

he can fight from afar, or from close..Has long range attacks, good defence, and can change the sourounding to fit his maneuverability and give it a maximum preformance. Kisame is very releaible, the facts point to it.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

His special prison where no one has ever broken free from?
"He even escaped from the frog's stomach, what on Earth did this guy pull of to get out of here?"
"You two cannot escape anymore, i will finish you off right here and now?"
Everything said shows us this was a jutsu Jiraiya is proud off and was sure off could keep two, who he knew where extremely strong, fighters inside.

You label the frog wall as an advantage, is it really ? I'ts jyraiya's own jutsu..how could that be an advantage?

advantage=something set before the fight, Jyraiya use his own jutsu..how is that an advatage?

Again,OK..that jutsu was preety damm good...but you have no proof that it is one of Jyraiya's best..however, we know with certainty that Amateratsu is one of the best
Itachi moves.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

As i've said, we've seen that not all Akatsuki members know each other that well. Not only that but i doubt Oro is the type to show off everything he's got. So even if Itachi knew Oro, he would have no idea what his real ability is.

hmm..how, where was this shown?..provide proof. Even if it's not alot, he still had an idea of what a Sannin can do.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Jiraiya:
- Itachi had more people
- Jiraiya had more people to defend

Itachi:
- Didn't have enough backup with his chakra level
- Broke free from an "inescapable" jutsu

Jiraiya had his frog stomach to somewhat cancel out his disadvantages, Itachi couldn't grow more chakra on the spot

Jyraiya's advantage.

-A somewhat weakened Itachi. (that could still use high level Amateratsu )

akatsuki's advantages

-Outnumbered Jyraiya
-100% full akatsuki.
-another quite powerfull Akatsuki that had enough energy to use Amateratsu level attacks.
-Jyraiya had 2 kids to protect.. REALLY easy targets.

who had the disadvantage?

[Seshen]

Itachi cannot win..... he can barely pull off a draw with the help of Kisame.....

Jiraiya would win.

Jiraiya is proficient in techniques that are impossible to copy by use of the Sharingan.

Itachi would cause Jiraiya trouble.... but Jiraiya would still win..

[Ltd.]