Uchiha Itachi vs Jiraiya

[Apoo]

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Seems that Itachi undoing his sharingan was only in the anime.
As for amateratsu... i highly just one strong attack can take down Jiraiya, so personally i'd opt to escape with it till i'd regain my strength as well.

The point is, that he still had energy left, and enough to use high level attacks. If you think about it..by your standards Itachi is quite weak..after using Mangekyo once on Kakashi..he's all out of Chakra? So, after one use of it..he can no longer fight...?With that you think he has what it takes to fuck with Jyraiya? He better have more than one or two uses of the eye to even present Jyraiya a challange.

the only logical explanation is that he still had a preety good amount of chakra left, He was not at his best, but he was not totally out of chakra either...If one use of the eye and your done for..That's more of a hinderance than it helps...

Point being..Itachi can't be that weak. It's also proven by him being able to use high level attacks. you can claim that that was his last or whatever, but nothing proves it.

The best I can give you is that Itachi was not at his best, but not nearly as incapacitated as you claim he was.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Gai is more raw power and thus a better matchup for Kisame (both are refered to as beasts). Yet overall Kisame acts like Itachi is stronger then him and it was Itachi that forced Oro out of Akatsuki and not Kisame. Kisame is a chakra beast, while Itachi is a genjutsu master, has great speed, intelligence and loads of jutsus cuz of sharingan. Itachi would seem more complete here.


Yes he is, Kisame is very reliable to support on when Itachi abuses his sharingan and drains his chakra. Great pair aren't they? But against a strong fighter with a variety of jutsus, great analythic skill or genjutsus Kisame wouldn't have it as easy as you make it seem.

A very releaible akatsuki at 100% power-level, and another akatsuki with ability to uses very high level attacks..is not enough of an advantage to take on Jyraiya?

Even if itachi is stronger than kisame, their abilities can't be that far appart.

Rember this is Itachi vs Jyraiya, not Jyraiya vs Itachi and Kisame.

If Full Kisame, and Itachi (although not at his best, but preety capable of fighting) is not enough to take on Jyraiya..Gee, I wonder how itachi alone woul fair vs Jyraiya, and if jyraiya had nobody to protect...

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Not an advantage, it cancelled out his disadvantages. He was able to restrain Kisame's movement partly, able to refrain Naruto from his raged attack AND keep Sasuke away from Itachi. And of course once again the terms inescapable prison, how on earth did he get out and i'll finish you off right here, those combined make it pretty obvious.
Which leaves the powerscale as only measuring stick and Kisame + a weakened Itachi would have way more trouble then ever. Running and fighting when healthy would be better then risking their lives.

that's not true. How can your own jutsu cnacel out your disadvantages?? It's your technique..it's costing your chakra..Rember also that if Kisame was going all out..he could easily fill that stomach with water, making him as fast and manuverable as a fish, like he did with the Gai team.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

give me a sec , i don't know where those quotes are lol

It's been over 2 hours.

[fireblade1]

y the hell are u all fighting
some one say itachi would win
and some1 say jiaiya will win thats the end of it

[Apoo]

Originally Posted by fireblade1

y the hell are u all fighting
some one say itachi would win
and some1 say jiaiya will win thats the end of it

we're not fighting dude..it's called debating.

If I just say jyraiya would win, and he'd just say Itachi would win..that'd be boring.

[miracle]

Originally Posted by freakzilla

How so? Itachi got into the battle weakened. It proves Itachi ran because the advantage Jiraiya had was too big

how did jiaraiya have advantage??? actually he had the disadvantage because he had naruto and sasuke to protect and it was 2 v 1. you are only saying itachi had disadvantage because he had to use amateratsu to get out of the stomach. but stomach was a jutsu of jiraiya's so no advantage was given to jiraiya

[Ltd.]

^chakra depletion from already being in combat using one of his strongest techs twice and not having so much chakra is enough disadvantage I believe.

But I'll say this I won't give my choice yet I haven't seen enough from both.

[freakzilla]

Originally Posted by Tony

The point is, that he still had energy left, and enough to use high level attacks. If you think about it..by your standards Itachi is quite weak..after using Mangekyo once on Kakashi..he's all out of Chakra? So, after one use of it..he can no longer fight...?With that you think he has what it takes to fuck with Jyraiya? He better have more than one or two uses of the eye to even present Jyraiya a challange.

Once on Kakashi and once on Sasuke, that's using his (most likely) strongest jutsu twice. I also didn't say he was out of chakra, but i said he was unable to compete with Jiraiya anymore. He didn't expect Jiraiya to show up so he had the possibility to use that much chakra without having to worry about a confrontation with Jiraiya.

Originally Posted by Tony

A very releaible akatsuki at 100% power-level, and another akatsuki with ability to uses very high level attacks..is not enough of an advantage to take on Jyraiya?

Even if itachi is stronger than kisame, their abilities can't be that far appart.

Rember this is Itachi vs Jyraiya, not Jyraiya vs Itachi and Kisame.

If Full Kisame, and Itachi (although not at his best, but preety capable of fighting) is not enough to take on Jyraiya..Gee, I wonder how itachi alone woul fair vs Jyraiya, and if jyraiya had nobody to protect...

IMO Itachi was not capable of fighting Jiraiya. His escape was used with his last chakra.
found that pic i was looking for now: http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...o&PhotoID=3316
"why was it necessary to retreat for YOU" from Kisame
huff, no more sharingan, i need to rest

Originally Posted by Tony

that's not true. How can your own jutsu cnacel out your disadvantages?? It's your technique..it's costing your chakra..Rember also that if Kisame was going all out..he could easily fill that stomach with water, making him as fast and manuverable as a fish, like he did with the Gai team.

He managed to take Sasuke away from Itachi and stop Naruto from raging towards death. However, thats a very nice comment about Kisame. Even if Jiraiya released his jutsu he'd have to defend two genin again. Yet without Itachi being able to do much anymore, Kisame would pretty much be on his own against Jiraiya. Running is their best option.

Originally Posted by Tony

It's been over 2 hours.

Yea sorry, been at the gym and formatting my laptop :p
Can't find it, so i don't have any proof. Though i wouldn't know why it'd stick with me if it wasn't in the manga somewhere

[Apoo]

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Once on Kakashi and once on Sasuke, that's using his (most likely) strongest jutsu twice. I also didn't say he was out of chakra, but i said he was unable to compete with Jiraiya anymore. He didn't expect Jiraiya to show up so he had the possibility to use that much chakra without having to worry about a confrontation with Jiraiya.

It's Jyraiya..I'll take my chances with Itachi using 2 magekyo and been done for..I don't know about you, but I really doubt 2 uses of magekyu is enough to stop jyriaya who is super cautios when it comes to genjutsu (from his explenations to naruto)

However, I doubt that was his best...if he had enough left to preform amateratsu, he should have enough left to do mangekyou aswell.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

IMO Itachi was not capable of fighting Jiraiya. His escape was used with his last chakra.
found that pic i was looking for now: http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...o&PhotoID=3316
"why was it necessary to retreat for YOU" from Kisame
huff, no more sharingan, i need to rest

He needed rest, I already admit that he was not at his best, but he was not uncapable of fighting, whith such a backup..and hte advantage of easy targets that would reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly casue jyraiya problems to protect and keep up with two Akatsuki.

however you look at it, Jyraiya always comes down to being the one at hte most disadvantage.

Also, this is Jyraiya vs Itachi..leaving Kisame out if..like I've said..

somehow for you 1 kisame, and An Itachi caplable of still using high level moves is not enough to beat Jiraiya..but Just itachi alone even at 100% is?? I'm sorry I don't get that logic.

and we're not even counting the possibilities of Gamabunta making an apparence.

Also, The quote still stands..it's something always similar suggesting that Itachi and Kisame would have lost even if they fought both themselves.

[freakzilla]

Originally Posted by Tony

It's Jyraiya..I'll take my chances with Itachi using 2 magekyo and been done for..I don't know about you, but I really doubt 2 uses of magekyu is enough to stop jyriaya who is super cautios when it comes to genjutsu (from his explenations to naruto)

However, I doubt that was his best...if he had enough left to preform amateratsu, he should have enough left to do mangekyou aswell.

Who said mangekyou would bring Jiraiya down . Not lacking the huge amount of chakra used by performing such a technique twice is what would give Itachi an edge.

Originally Posted by Tony

He needed rest, I already admit that he was not at his best, but he was not uncapable of fighting, whith such a backup..and hte advantage of easy targets that would reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly casue jyraiya problems to protect and keep up with two Akatsuki.

however you look at it, Jyraiya always comes down to being the one at hte most disadvantage.

I admit he has got A disadvantage.

Originally Posted by Tony

Also, this is Jyraiya vs Itachi..leaving Kisame out if..like I've said..

somehow for you 1 kisame, and An Itachi caplable of still using high level moves is not enough to beat Jiraiya..but Just itachi alone even at 100% is?? I'm sorry I don't get that logic.

Look at the pic i posted again capable of using ONE high level move, then he undid his sharingan. Itachi who always runs around with sharingan! And yet you keep saying his chakra level isn't as bad as i say it is?!?

Originally Posted by Tony

Also, The quote still stands..it's something always similar suggesting that Itachi and Kisame would have lost even if they fought both themselves.

That one was based on reputation as said before. After actually meeting Jiraiya Kisame asked why Itachi had to run. Hence i'll say it again. Your quote is biased.

Think i'm gonna vote Itachi now, after thinking things through i believe Itachi has an edge here.

[Apoo]

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Who said mangekyou would bring Jiraiya down . Not lacking the huge amount of chakra used by performing such a technique twice is what would give Itachi an edge.

Hmm..How?

Originally Posted by freakzilla

I admit he has got A disadvantage.

A couple of dissadvantages (more than Itachi and akatsuki had), and they still ran.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Look at the pic i posted again capable of using ONE high level move, then he undid his sharingan. Itachi who always runs around with sharingan! And yet you keep saying his chakra level isn't as bad as i say it is?!?

that came straight out of your ass..We've seen Itachi with sharingan when he was fighting people, or about to face peoplel...If I remeber we saw him with Sharingan when we first met him..to give it to the readers that it was Sasuke's brother.

why would Itachi run around using sharingan when he does not need to? Let's just start by pointing out we've never seen that.

why would Itachi use sharingan when he is alone with Kisame.

We only saw him do that when we met him, to emphesaize that it was Itachi, a new Sharingan..kishimoto even ended a chapter like that.

I also don't care how low in chakra you are, if you can use Amateratsu, your not that low in chakra...

Originally Posted by freakzilla

That one was based on reputation as said before. After actually meeting Jiraiya Kisame asked why Itachi had to run. Hence i'll say it again. Your quote is biased.

so wait..yeah, After passing out a once in a life-time opportunity, while having the bigger numbers, and two easy targets..I fail to see Itachi's disadvantages while compared to Jyraiya.

I want to take this a little further too. I don't see why you underate Kisame so much.

Bassicly your labeling him as a hinderance..Kisame is arguably just as strong, or VERY close in strenght to Itachi.

It was a 2-1, and they still ran, they had him outnumbered, and htey still ran..Want it or not he had Kisame with him, and he could still uses very high level jutsu. They also had easy targets..how cn jyraiya fight at hise best and protecting them? Yet, they still ran.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

Think i'm gonna vote Itachi now, after thinking things through i believe Itachi has an edge here.

you just admited that Mangekyo is not enough to beat Jiraiya..Itachi mostly a Genjutsu user, and Mangekyo is his best genjutsu Jutsu...If you say is not enough to beat jyraiya..then what is??

We also know that Jyraiya wasn't going nearly at his full strenght there..what if Gamabunta?

Jiraiya is on a different scale...he was confident vs 2 akatsuki..who ran....

[freakzilla]

Originally Posted by Tony

A couple of dissadvantages (more than Itachi and akatsuki had), and they still ran.

More, but i doubt they were bigger disadvantages

Originally Posted by Tony

that came straight out of your ass..We've seen Itachi with sharingan when he was fighting people, or about to face peoplel...If I remeber we saw him with Sharingan when we first met him..to give it to the readers that it was Sasuke's brother.

why would Itachi run around using sharingan when he does not need to? Let's just start by pointing out we've never seen that.

why would Itachi use sharingan when he is alone with Kisame.

I remind you he never activates it when he goes into combat, he always already has sharingan eyes.
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...o&PhotoID=2318 (in the HQ inane you can see it more clearly, or in the anime)
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...o&PhotoID=2328 (no fight)
i also remember seeing Itachi with sharingan while Akatsuki met together in the cave, though i don't remember which chapter that is at all.

Originally Posted by Tony

I also don't care how low in chakra you are, if you can use Amateratsu, your not that low in chakra...

the ability to use only one strong attack in a kage level battle, seems enough reason to me

Originally Posted by Tony

It was a 2-1, and they still ran, they had him outnumbered, and htey still ran..Want it or not he had Kisame with him, and he could still uses very high level jutsu. They also had easy targets..how cn jyraiya fight at hise best and protecting them? Yet, they still ran.

It was 1on1, i don't count Itachi in this fight at all. He could do one or two serious attacks at that time. Nothing usefull for a fight of that level. That only leaves the targets which Jiraiya protected using a jutsu. IMO the disadvantages were about equal.

Originally Posted by Tony

you just admited that Mangekyo is not enough to beat Jiraiya..Itachi mostly a Genjutsu user, and Mangekyo is his best genjutsu Jutsu...If you say is not enough to beat jyraiya..then what is??

speed, sharingan, genjutsu master, loads of experience dispite his age
While Jiraiya wouldn't fall prey to mange, Itachi still has other ways to do genjutsus, he still has other ways to fight other then genjutsus as well (taijutsu on Kurenai, exploding bunshins, amataretsu, goukakyuu, and god knows what he has copied over the years). Not using mangekyou could actually make Itachi conserve his chakra and using it for jutsus that use less chakra.

Originally Posted by Tony

We also know that Jyraiya wasn't going nearly at his full strenght there..what if Gamabunta?

It is unknown if Gama can be affected by mange and Itachi should be faster then a big frog (or at least get on his nose for just a split sec). Though i think he can.
It is also unknown if there are ways to fight summons with ninjutsus.
It is even unknown if Itachi even has a summon.[/quote]

Originally Posted by Tony

Jiraiya is on a different scale...he was confident vs 2 akatsuki..who ran....

He was also confident against Oro. He doesn't back down from a fight and won't show it to his opponent that he has doubts about winning. It's just who Jiraiya is. A mind that doesn't give up is the strongest card to hold in a battle is what Jiraiya said. If your not confident then you can't have a mind that doesn't give up.

[naruto126]

totally jiraiya

[Apoo]

Originally Posted by freakzilla

More, but i doubt they were bigger disadvantages

Why? What disadvantage can be bigger than having to protect 2 genin from aktsuki, while outnumbered?

It:
a)- Does not allow you to concentrate, you constantly have to keep them on your mind, and you lose focus on the battle.

b)- It does not allow you to fight at your hardest, for fear of using attacks that can damage teh souroundings casuing damage to your foes aswell.

c)- Makes them easy targets for kidnapping, and using them agaisnt you, and if you were to try to protect them, if leaves openings (the Deidara-Gaara situation)

Having someone to protect is a major disadvatage in fights. Now, These are akatsuki, and htey knew this. they knew they could make easy targets of Naruto and Sasuke..so by your standards they were not good enough to beat jiraiya when he had such a weakness.

I would use a similar example from bleach, but you don't read bleach

Originally Posted by freakzilla

I remind you he never activates it when he goes into combat, he always already has sharingan eyes.
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/chapter144.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=2318 (in the HQ inane you can see it more clearly, or in the anime)
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...o&PhotoID=2328 (no fight)
i also remember seeing Itachi with sharingan while Akatsuki met together in the cave, though i don't remember which chapter that is at all.

I still don't get your point, Can you provide the link where he "turned off" his sharingan again, I'm not too sure..but the page were they escape, where he said he needed rest, and the link with him and Kisame talking on hte rock were the same day/chapter?

However, that same link (the bold one) said "Hmm, He can prove to be a match for the strongest of hte leaf, and one of hte top 7 of hte mist"

Proof to be a match for both .

Now. I've said it a billion times and i will say it again. Kisame is just as strong, or if not very close to itachi's level from what we've seen.

A full-powered akatsuki, plus Itachi for support with the "Naruto-Sasuke" factor impeding jyraiya's progress is not enough to fight Jyriaya for you, but a Jiriaya with no disadvantages would lose to just iItachi? I don't get that logic.

Weather you want it or not..Kisame is just as powerfull as Itachi, maybe trailing him abit, but still in the same level...Yet he is not good enough for Jiraiya (while having Itachi backup) but itachi alone is? Makes no sense..

Originally Posted by freakzilla

the ability to use only one strong attack in a kage level battle, seems enough reason to me

you with the one attack thing? What one attack..where?? For all we know he could have used Amateratsu 3-4 more times, even though he was low on chakra.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

It was 1on1, i don't count Itachi in this fight at all. He could do one or two serious attacks at that time. Nothing usefull for a fight of that level. That only leaves the targets which Jiraiya protected using a jutsu. IMO the disadvantages were about equal.

that statement is contradicts itself. Itachi=Kisame..Kisame=Itachi.

So if Itachi was 100%, and Kisame was the one low on chakra..that would have been ok, and they would have stayed and fought?? I don't get it...

Also, If itachi gets knocked out from just having beat Kakashi and Sasuke which are supposed to be WAY below his level, and he is that tired..I don't see how he's so strong compared to Jyraiya. who IMO had hte biggest, and worse disadvantage..yet they still ran...

Originally Posted by freakzilla

speed, sharingan, genjutsu master, loads of experience dispite his age
While Jiraiya wouldn't fall prey to mange, Itachi still has other ways to do genjutsus, he still has other ways to fight other then genjutsus as well (taijutsu on Kurenai, exploding bunshins, amataretsu, goukakyuu, and god knows what he has copied over the years). Not using mangekyou could actually make Itachi conserve his chakra and using it for jutsus that use less chakra.

If Mangekyo the strongest of Itachi genjutsu won't beat Jyraiya, what makes you think a weaker genjutsu would beat him?

Don't forget that most stuff Itachi can do, Jyraiya can do better.

Originally Posted by freakzilla

It is unknown if Gama can be affected by mange and Itachi should be faster then a big frog (or at least get on his nose for just a split sec). Though i think he can.
It is also unknown if there are ways to fight summons with ninjutsus.
It is even unknown if Itachi even has a summon.

There has been plenty of times for ninjutsu to be used vs a Summon, and it has been used.

Mangekyo affecting Gama? Hmm...you got me there..

but hey, if 2 uses of hte eye has itachi falling over, and out of chakra..then I don't expect too much..

[Sparda]

Originally Posted by Tony

Jyraiya..By words of Itachi himself..He and Kisame at best could only acomplish to kill jyraiya while dieing themselves.

Exactly what he said.

[Apoo]

Freak i'ts becoming apparent that it's only you and Ltd who found that quote biased.

this is like the 5th time. someon has quoted my post and said "exaclty what he said" as to that quote.

[freakzilla]

Originally Posted by Tony

Freak i'ts becoming apparent that it's only you and Ltd who found that quote biased.

this is like the 5th time. someon has quoted my post and said "exaclty what he said" as to that quote.

well sorry for looking into things, that quote doesn't match with "why was a retreat necessary, for YOU". And 90% of the people that watch Naruto don't really look into the story all that thoroughly. So i don't care if the entire forum quotes it. There is nothing that has not supported my quote yet.

Originally Posted by Tony

Why? What disadvantage can be bigger than having to protect 2 genin from aktsuki, while outnumbered?

Jiraiya managed to take Sasuke into the stomach wall away from Itachi, yet he managed to keep Naruto from rushing into certain death. I'm not saying the disadgantage is gone, but it definitely isn't as big as you make it look.

Originally Posted by Tony

I still don't get your point, Can you provide the link where he "turned off" his sharingan again, I'm not too sure..but the page were they escape, where he said he needed rest, and the link with him and Kisame talking on hte rock were the same day/chapter?

My point is that Itachi doesn't activate sharingan during fights, he enters the fights with sharingan on, when he was talking to Kisame he ALSO had sharingan on, when simply overlooking the village he ALSO had sharingan on, when amongst Akatsuki people he ALSO had sharingan on.
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...o&PhotoID=3316
Yet when running away from Jiraiya huff, sharingan goes off. And yet you keep counting Itachi into the battle. His chakra was drained, escaping was the best he could do.

Originally Posted by Tony

However, that same link (the bold one) said "Hmm, He can prove to be a match for the strongest of hte leaf, and one of hte top 7 of hte mist"

Proof to be a match for both .

1) for the strongest of the leaf
2) can prove, as in: it is not sure yet (since we don't know his abilities, we're basing it on rumours)

Originally Posted by Tony

you with the one attack thing? What one attack..where?? For all we know he could have used Amateratsu 3-4 more times, even though he was low on chakra.

needed to rest and sharingan went off

Originally Posted by Tony

that statement is contradicts itself. Itachi=Kisame..Kisame=Itachi.

So if Itachi was 100%, and Kisame was the one low on chakra..that would have been ok, and they would have stayed and fought?? I don't get it...

Itachi > Kisame, perhaps not by that much, but it's obvious Kisame considers Itachi stronger. Not to mention that Itachi is the smarter one of the two and thus can analyse an opponent he has never seen before much better then Kisame. On top of that Itachi also has more variety of skills at his disposal to adapt to Jiraiya.

Originally Posted by Tony

Also, If itachi gets knocked out from just having beat Kakashi and Sasuke which are supposed to be WAY below his level, and he is that tired..I don't see how he's so strong compared to Jyraiya. who IMO had hte biggest, and worse disadvantage..yet they still ran...

lawl, cmon, you know that's just bs, he taunted them, he needed the two other sharingan users to get stronger and thus gave them an experience of how far they are behind his level. I doubt Itachi would even have to use sharingan to take care of the Kakashi back then. The levels have nothing to do with him burning his chakra in this case.

Originally Posted by Tony

If Mangekyo the strongest of Itachi genjutsu won't beat Jyraiya, what makes you think a weaker genjutsu would beat him?

Because you can avoid mangekyou by not looking in his eyes, yet if the genjutsu is activated somewhere tha