Naruto Manga chapter 397 discussion.

[Sierra117]

Naruto needs some serious chapter reformulation. We've just seen a 19-page chat. Serioulsy, all that happened on this chapter should've been like 1/3 of a chapter. That is seriously fucked up.

[nasman]

so sasukes eyes bleed like itachi's did when he performed that technique - does that mean itachi somehow donated his eye/s to sasuke rather than just his techniques?

[_Metsuke_]

Originally Posted by Sierra117

Don't say it if you know nothing about what you're about to say. Hitler's plan was to put Germany back on top, after the complete industrial destruction it had during the war. He took over some time after the 1929 crisis and used the image of an enemy to drive the nationality and will to fight up.

Never did he mention anything about saving the world, just about wiping the "inferior races" to make it a "better place".

You make my point for me. I placed the word 'saving' in quotes to indicate that I was not using the normal definition of the term. Read in the context of the rest of my post, my point was to analogize Itachi's actions of discriminate genocide (the Uchiha clan) to Hitler's actions (Jews, et. al.). THe point was, from one point of view, likely the Germans of the time, Hitler was 'saving' the world. (Please note the quotation marks to distinguish my selective use of the word). In the same manner, Itachi may have similarly 'saved' the shinobi world.

At the end of the day, my point stands. Using abhorrent means to effectuate your own goal does not make you good - just because you think what you're doing is 'right'. (again - quotes)


Edit: Clappers - indeed. However, note that Godwin's law speaks to recurring reference, rather than a singular. By your own link and its own terms, Godwin's law is premised on the fact that there are times and places where such analogies are appropriate. I submit that my previous post is one of those appropriate analogies rather than simply attempting to achieve some emotional response.

[fireegg]

Originally Posted by Sierra117

Naruto needs some serious chapter reformulation. We've just seen a 19-page chat. Serioulsy, all that happened on this chapter should've been like 1/3 of a chapter. That is seriously fucked up.

Yeah I think the chapter was dragged on way longer than it should of been.

[Sierra117]

Originally Posted by _Metsuke_

You make my point for me. I placed the word 'saving' in quotes to indicate that I was not using the normal definition of the term. Read in the context of the rest of my post, my point was to analogize Itachi's actions of discriminate genocide (the Uchiha clan) to Hitler's actions (Jews, et. al.). THe point was, from one point of view, likely the Germans of the time, Hitler was 'saving' the world. (Please note the quotation marks to distinguish my selective use of the word). In the same manner, Itachi may have similarly 'saved' the shinobi world.

At the end of the day, my point stands. Using abhorrent means to effectuate your own goal does not make you good - just because you think what you're doing is 'right'. (again - quotes)


Edit: Clappers - indeed. However, note that Godwin's law speaks to recurring reference, rather than a singular. By your own link and its own terms, Godwin's law is premised on the fact that there are times and places where such analogies are appropriate. I submit that my previous post is one of those appropriate analogies rather than simply attempting to achieve some emotional response.

I do get your point now, but it is still poor comparison since the only thing both of them had in common was genocide. Assuming what Tobi says is true, Itachi sacrificed himself for his homeland and brother. There is just no trace of fascism in his acts. None that I can find anyway.

[The stig]

Well, <<Kishi and his lover sasuke.

Kishi getting punished for doing this.

<<Mad maniac(me) hopping on a plane to kill kishi.

^I think that sums up my feelings on this manga.

Anyway, despite sasuke yet again getting over powered up and him being the only one to hit madara(technically) and itachi, who we all knew as evil and twisted has now been revealed to be a "noble citizen", it was pretty much....I can't say it.

We didn't even get to see madaras face and well, everything i just posted

WTF IS GOING ON?

Has kishi just forgotten about everyone, has he forgotten its called NARUTO not SASUKE or SASUGOD

All you sasuke "lovers" have to admit, it's getting rediculas and going a bit far, i mean, i don't hate sasuke, i just hate that he is literally, being turned into a god.

I'm not even left in suspence so i don't care theres no manga next week.

I mean seriousely, wheres kisame, wheres sakuras arc, wheres kakashis arc?

Sasuke had either, i don't know, die or go back to the village or something to stop the whole sasuke fest thats going on.it's getting really old....

I suppose the only good part of the chapter was erm.....I actually have no idea.

Though is anyone else thinking, that itachi actually didn't kill any of his clan? I don't know why, but i'm starting to think hedidn't, and if he did, then how was it all to protect sasuke and the leaf?

[_Metsuke_]

Originally Posted by Sierra117

I do get your point now, but it is still poor comparison since the only thing both of them had in common was genocide. Assuming what Tobi says is true, Itachi sacrificed himself for his homeland and brother. There is just no trace of fascism in his acts. None that I can find anyway.

The whole point of Itachi's slaughter of the Uchiha clan was to reform it in his and Madara's (though this link is now clouded) image. The glorification of that is a bit beyond reasonable in my mind.

And perhaps this is where the previous discussion dovetails: The source of information is Madara and while yes, there are practical reasons why Kishi would not necessarily outright lie to divert the reader (though I don't see why not if you can advance the story) there's nothing to say that Madara's discussion with Sasuke involves the complete truth. It is very possible that Madara will insert snippets of truth and omit other portions to get the desired result out of Sasuke. (I imagine likely assistance in capturing Kyuubi). That character interaction I think takes precedence and we're not going to get 'the TRUTH about Itachi' from Madara - just the 'truth'.

[Dussan]

To be honest, I find more acts of Itachi being rather noble in the manga then I do of him being a sadistic freak, like the rest of the Akatsuki.

For instance.

Could Jiraiya's spy in Akatsuki have been Itachi? Meaning that whole confrontation between them staged for Kisame's benefit?

What about that whole going to Konoha to get Naruto. Naruto had the nine tails, and we find out after the time skip that you have get them in some kind of order or the whole thing fails. So if Itachi's little jutsu HAD worked then they would have held on ot Naruto for 2 years while they gathered up the rest of the jinchuuriki.

Protecting sasuke by forcing him to stay in the village makes sense.

I think the reason he went to Konoha was to
A. See how Sasuke was doing.
B. Probe the defenses after Sandaime was killed. See if Konoha could do the deed.

So Jiraiya was there, AND Kisame saw that he was there. 4 jounin jumped their asses damn near minutes after they got into town forcing them to haul ass.

[Mika-kun]

Originally Posted by scarface101

Well, <<Kishi and his lover sasuke.

Kishi getting punished for doing this.

<<Mad maniac(me) hopping on a plane to kill kishi.

^I think that sums up my feelings on this manga.

Anyway, despite sasuke yet again getting over powered up and him being the only one to hit madara(technically) and itachi, who we all knew as evil and twisted has now been revealed to be a "noble citizen", it was pretty much....I can't say it.

We didn't even get to see madaras face and well, everything i just posted

WTF IS GOING ON?

Has kishi just forgotten about everyone, has he forgotten its called NARUTO not SASUKE or SASUGOD

All you sasuke "lovers" have to admit, it's getting rediculas and going a bit far, i mean, i don't hate sasuke, i just hate that he is literally, being turned into a god.

I'm not even left in suspence so i don't care theres no manga next week.

I mean seriousely, wheres kisame, wheres sakuras arc, wheres kakashis arc?

Sasuke had either, i don't know, die or go back to the village or something to stop the whole sasuke fest thats going on.it's getting really old....

I suppose the only good part of the chapter was erm.....I actually have no idea.

Though is anyone else thinking, that itachi actually didn't kill any of his clan? I don't know why, but i'm starting to think hedidn't, and if he did, then how was it all to protect sasuke and the leaf?

As your movie scarface I believe said.

Every dog has its day.

Naruto will have his, just be patient.

I'm pleased with everything so far. I rather everything be cleared up now then having to wait 9999999999999999999999999999999 chapters before getting back to what we wanted to know.

Kishi specified it would be Sasuke Kakashi and Sakura to get the spotlight, just let it come oO I'm glad he didn't put a cliffhanger and jump to another fight, it would be pointless, we finally see a battle with Itachi and Sasuke, I want sum s'xplaining.

[_Metsuke_]

Dussan - And all the people of the Uchiha clan are chilling at the beach in Maui sipping Mai Tais...

[Sierra117]

Originally Posted by scarface101

Well, <<Kishi and his lover sasuke.

Kishi getting punished for doing this.

<<Mad maniac(me) hopping on a plane to kill kishi.

^I think that sums up my feelings on this manga.

Anyway, despite sasuke yet again getting over powered up and him being the only one to hit madara(technically) and itachi, who we all knew as evil and twisted has now been revealed to be a "noble citizen", it was pretty much....I can't say it.

We didn't even get to see madaras face and well, everything i just posted

WTF IS GOING ON?

Has kishi just forgotten about everyone, has he forgotten its called NARUTO not SASUKE or SASUGOD

All you sasuke "lovers" have to admit, it's getting rediculas and going a bit far, i mean, i don't hate sasuke, i just hate that he is literally, being turned into a god.

I'm not even left in suspence so i don't care theres no manga next week.

I mean seriousely, wheres kisame, wheres sakuras arc, wheres kakashis arc?

Sasuke had either, i don't know, die or go back to the village or something to stop the whole sasuke fest thats going on.it's getting really old....

I suppose the only good part of the chapter was erm.....I actually have no idea.

Though is anyone else thinking, that itachi actually didn't kill any of his clan? I don't know why, but i'm starting to think hedidn't, and if he did, then how was it all to protect sasuke and the leaf?

The positive side is that it's now proved that Itachi didn't lose the fight, he just died as he planned to. Of course, that doesn't mean anything since Itachi is dead and Sasuke just got another HUGE power boost. So yeah, Kishi is pretty much destroying the whole manga as he makes Sasuke more and more powerfull and Naruto just keep getting more and more stupid and useless. Really it's like watching the tape of a football game you know is gonna be at least a draw, but there are only 10 minutes left and the home team loses by 5x0.

Originally Posted by Dussan

To be honest, I find more acts of Itachi being rather noble in the manga then I do of him being a sadistic freak, like the rest of the Akatsuki.

For instance.

Could Jiraiya's spy in Akatsuki have been Itachi? Meaning that whole confrontation between them staged for Kisame's benefit?

What about that whole going to Konoha to get Naruto. Naruto had the nine tails, and we find out after the time skip that you have get them in some kind of order or the whole thing fails. So if Itachi's little jutsu HAD worked then they would have held on ot Naruto for 2 years while they gathered up the rest of the jinchuuriki.

Protecting sasuke by forcing him to stay in the village makes sense.

I think the reason he went to Konoha was to
A. See how Sasuke was doing.
B. Probe the defenses after Sandaime was killed. See if Konoha could do the deed.

So Jiraiya was there, AND Kisame saw that he was there. 4 jounin jumped their asses damn near minutes after they got into town forcing them to haul ass.

Not only does that make sense but it would save Itachi's character and maybe even save the whole arc and explain the connection of the two fights. It would mean both the protectors of Sasuke AND Naruto are gone for good, and here is where it starts to get serious.

[BlackHawkLV]

As I see it - manga just keeps getting better and better. No more stupid comments and actions from Naruto for at least a year... woot

[The stig]

@sierra: But, i knew that, we all knew that. We all knew sasuke won by default

@mika: Damn, you scarfaced me And i was watching it last night lol, how comical.

You have a point, i have to admit, i liked the chapter but just hated it more Though, tbh, i've kind of lost interest in naruto, he's been a let down, i just want to see madaras damn face and sakuras and kakashis arc now, and of course, kisames fight.

[PC Chris]

I have mixed feelings about this, I'm willing to bet Orochimaru is no longer with Sasuke anymore time will tell but thats my belief. So perhaps Kishi gave him MS to make up for the lack of Orochimaru.

I don't think Itachi was good at all, when he killed the clan he probably didn't want to kill Sasuke because he cared about him. As time passes he may have felt a sort of regret for it or perhaps began to see the true side of Mandara and from there he tried to redeem himself maybe in his eyes.

[Sierra117]

Maybe Itachi made Sasuke go all out so that he would be able to kill Orochimaru when he got out and prevent Sasuke from being in danger of losing his body to that maniac.

[scoober]

I was reading earlier chapter and Madara is Itachi's teacher.

That's probably why Itachi is so freakin awesome!

Itachi probably rebelled against Madara, that's how he knows everything about itachi and sasuke.

[Ninpou]

WHUUUPTYDAMNDO!!!!! Another power up for the almighty Sasuke. No training. No nothing. That's why I ignore all the complaining about Naruto. Yeah he's weaker than sasuke right now but at least he's getting stronger by training, not by short cuts.Unbelievable (Sigh)

It was a good chapter regardless. But I'll wait till the next chapter to decide of Itachi is good or not.

[scoober]

after reading this chapter I have new evidence that TOBI is in fact Madara not TOBITO check out the TOBI thread.

[Sierra117]

Originally Posted by scoober

after reading this chapter I have new evidence that TOBI is in fact Madara not TOBITO check out the TOBI thread.

Is there even a doubt left? He said it himself twice now.

[gmulis]

i don't know whats more shocking????


itachi being good caring brother who still loved his village or sasuke gaining itachi's techniques


someone needs TO SLAP KISHI VERY HARD AND REMIND HIM, THIS IS ABOUT NARUTO