Naruto Manga chapter 398 discussion.

[ANBUQ]

Originally Posted by Milanista23

I'm not sure, but could it be that this was part of the order? I mean gaining the MS to be able to complete the mission successfully and then to use it on Sasuke to build up his hatred!

I'm not too sure about that. The clans in the Manga usually keep knowledge of their abilities to themselves. Divulging information about your clan's abilities also gives away information about how someone can defeat you.

It should not be assumed that all Madara's words are lies, nor should we take his words an unslanted recollection of history. Not knowing what his motive is, it is hard to see how Sasuke plays into his plan. Sasuke is at a real disadvantage b/c he was only given a glimpse of the total scenario, so even if he thinks Madara is lying he cannot totally dismiss Madara's claims b/c the only thing he has known over the years is that Itachi killed his entire clan without good reason (not that there is a good reason to take out your parents and entire bloodline).

Without more info it is difficult to make a good prediction, but this chapter was enticing b/c there will finally be some closure about the Ulchia Massacre. Plus I've been wanting to know more about Itachi since he was introduced.

[Milanista23]

Originally Posted by Cane_The9lives

Why does the third hokage want sasuke to build up his hatred?

That just makes me think even less of sarutobi.

Not the third, but Itachi wanted to build up Sasuke's hatred. I assume the higher authorities of Konoha allowed Itachi to keep Sasuke, so Itachi wanted to protect Sasuke for the later stage (Maybe as Madara would come), so he implanted the idea of hatred so that Sasuke becomes really strong and can manage to live against Madara!

[usn014]

all that i know is that i hope sasuke doesnt fall for this cause i will be very dissapointed in him...i hope he has a stronger character than that

[OpTiMuSGOTFRAG]

Originally Posted by Cane_The9lives

Why does the third hokage want sasuke to build up his hatred?

That just makes me think even less of sarutobi.

Let us not doubt the Third Hokage.

Are we forgetting that Madara is a bad person? Why wouldn't he massage the truth a little bit to cast a negative light on a Hokage he likely despised.

Haven't we seen from Tsunade's encounter with those 2 older advisors that they clearly hold a lot of weight, power and influence? I could very easily see the Third being overruled by a majority vote amongst the other elders along with Danzou.

If the Third really did go along with it then perhaps there is more than meets the eye about the rose-tinted glass look of the Uchiha clan Sasuke thought he knew.

[nejix321]

Originally Posted by Cane_The9lives

All this chapter has done is leave me with more questions than answers, kishi is a sadist, i swear to god he is a sick twisted sadist!!!!!

That's what I was thinking. The whole Konoha ordered Itachi too kill the Clan kind of took me off guard.

Hey at least we know the 1st Hokage's last name, and possible Tsunade's.

[YondaimeSamaKun]

I think that it will be revealed that Minato and Naruto are related or are the grandson/great granson of the 1st and/or 2nd...

1st. Tsundade is the grand daughter of the 1st and is one of only 7 characters in the narutoverse who are blonde (plus naruto, minato and tsunade have blue eyes) that is ino and her dad (related) daidara and pain (sort of related) Minato and Naruto (related) Tsunade and ? as we all know hair styles and eye's (colors) heavily influence clan membership, uchihas, hyuugas, sarutobi's, gaara and pops, ino, kiba choji etc....

2nd. Tsundade was the one recalling Minato's past and family while Jiraiya was remembering everything.

3rd. Tsunade treats Naruto differently from everyone else even though he is at major risk.

4th. All great ninjas and Hokage's (with exception of the third and we dont know that yet) descend from a great lineage....nuff said.

[Quagz]

Originally Posted by Cane_The9lives

It still doesnt account for the fact that the uchiha clan should technically be the oldest clan of konoha, from what kishimoto is giving me.

Since apparently that clan along with the senju clan helped form konoha.
A clan not even mentioned during konohas formation supposedly the oldest clan of that village?...and the uchihas... the ones mentioned as the co-founders arent? That does not compute.

It doesnt matter if they were around hundreds of years before konoha is formed.
Kakashi specifically said they were the oldest clan of the village, they had to of been there during the founding. Yet the only clans ive heard of as the founders of konoha are the uchihas and the senju's.

It's contradictory to the story until kishimoto can work the hyugas into it.

hmm I do agree with you but maybe after the fact that uchiha clan was destroyed that the hyuugas became the oldest clan

I do agree that the hyuuga are being left out way too much in the scehe of everything


edit: I just had a thought, neji was right all along about destiny. Remember chuunin exams how we all thought naruto was a little orphan boy with a demon, well he's the son of a hokage and destined to be hokage. Naruto argued with neji but in the end he was pretty much wrong

also

3rd. Tsunade treats Naruto differently from everyone else even though he is at major risk.

Well think about it, he's like family and his father saved their asses by sacrificing himself. Hell the third was the same way to naruto when naruto was nothing but a trouble maker.

[Skywalker17]

the theory that itachi is jiraiya's spy might be true...

[char9999]

i agree that is why itachi avoided the battle with jiraya

[Skywalker17]

i can wait for naruto's turn... but what pisses me off is why the fuck sasuke has to change suits again and again while naruto is stuck with his fuckin jump suit!

[nasman]

Originally Posted by MasterTragedy

Sigh not surprised. Ok Nasman, I ask you, why, if he was a descendant of the 1st (meaning he'd carry his genes just like Tsunade) Why would he then bother to try to bring back the 1st's special mukoton ability through inserting the 1sts Dna into random babies, when he could simply experiment with his own, considering he would have the 1sts genes in him if they were related. He could merely messed with his own DNA until he got it to manifest and bam. Remember this is a good time in the past when he would still be in Konoha (if I remember he hasn't even started his body snatching technique yet). If he carried the firsts gene there's no reason to create Yamato.

lol, i was being sarcastic about him being harashima's son!

[Lycobre]

Originally Posted by Skywalker17

i can wait for naruto's turn... but what pisses me off is why the fuck sasuke has to change suits again and again while naruto is stuck with his fuckin jump suit!

I agree, i think he's the only shinobi that wears a jumpsuit. its time for a change. on another note, it s kinda strange that itachi would carryout an order such as eliminating his own clan. Something just isn't right, even madara was in on it. so my question to people is, does anyone think the higher ups knew about madara?

But in someways it seems both madara and konoha had the same goals, what could have happened other than the kyuubi's attack. to have brought on this.

[dpt101]

Originally Posted by Cane_The9lives

What i want to know is, how could itachi just accept such an order?
Did he actually hate his clan? Or was he the type of shinobi that danzou trains, ones who accept the mission over freinds and family, and personal feelings are thrown out the window(accept maybe for his brother) if thats true, i still dont think of itachi as a Moral human being.

You may have answered your first question here. I believe it says something to the effect of Itachi "destroying his sense of self" which would definitely mean he was not afraid to place his personal feelings aside for his mission. Considering that Danzou knew about the plan, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he had trained Itachi. While it wouldn't make Itachi a moral human being it would certainly make him one of, if not the, most devoted shinobi that we've seen from Konoha.

Still, somebody else brought up a good point: Itachi was ordered to destroy the clan, so why is Sasuke alive? Did they tell him not to kill Sasuke because he was a child? Did they feel it wasn't important for Sasuke to be taken out? Or did Itachi plead with them until they allowed it to happen?

Originally Posted by Cane_The9lives

It doesnt matter if they were around hundreds of years before konoha is formed.
Kakashi specifically said they were the oldest clan of the village, they had to of been there during the founding. Yet the only clans ive heard of as the founders of konoha are the uchihas and the senju's.

Just a thought: It doesn't need to mean that the Hyuuga are one of the founding or first clans in the village. If they are the oldest clan in the village, he can be referencing their existing long before the village was created.

[star105]

Originally Posted by Cane_The9lives

It still doesnt account for the fact that the uchiha clan should technically be the oldest clan of konoha, from what kishimoto is giving me.

Since apparently that clan along with the senju clan helped form konoha.
A clan not even mentioned during konohas formation supposedly the oldest clan of that village?...and the uchihas... the ones mentioned as the co-founders arent? That does not compute.

It doesnt matter if they were around hundreds of years before konoha is formed.
Kakashi specifically said they were the oldest clan of the village, they had to of been there during the founding. Yet the only clans ive heard of as the founders of konoha are the uchihas and the senju's.

It's contradictory to the story until kishimoto can work the hyugas into it.

wasn't also mentioned that its thought if u look back far enough the sharingan is thought to be decended from the Byakugan?

so it could be the oldest clan in of the village if they were older than the Uchihas but that doesn't mean that they should have been a part of the village until after it was created

[Sierra117]

Itachi DID treat the clan differently since he entered ANBU. Maybe they told him something (truth or not) that made him hate the clan. So he did kill them on orders, ran away and found Jiraiya. And that's when he joined Akatsuki on Jiraiya's request.

[SHADENINJA]

To clear it up, There is no contradiction witht he Hyuuga and Uchiha age thing

There were ninja clans before Konoha was founded, and the Hyuuga are obviously much older, and pre-date the Uchiha, like Kishi has said in the manga before

[l0rdza0n]

Last night upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore..

has anyone done a *TIMELINE* on current events.. history of Konoha.. specifically on recent revelations..?

why?

simple.. everyone is asking Why could Sarutobi order the hit on the Uchihas..? well.. this is what my mind pondered when the sandman visited me last night.. what if Sarutobi finally realized that some people are far too dangerous to be allowed to live? But then what triggered that..?

Ahh then we tie in things Kish already has shown us.. Kyuubi attacked Konoha.. 4th sacrificing himself to stop an unstoppable kyuubi..

this is where the timeline comes into play as a sample.. i'll use 1900s to make numbering easier but this is very very basic

1900: it began with the great ninja wars

1910: Uchihas and Senju rise to prominence above all other shinobi clans

1912: Shodai and Madara meet for the first time in battle.. mutual respect and admiration grew and a friendship was formed

1915: Konoha was founded! A new nation, the Hidden Laaf!

1920: Madara and Shodai has a falling out, legendary battle of two friends re-shaping the land, now forever known as "Valley of The End"

1925: Sarutobi becomes promoted to 3rd Hokage by Shodai and Nidame

1930: Sarutobi trains the Sannins

1940: Minato becomes 4th Hokage, under tutelage of Jiraiya

1950: Kyuubi attacks Konoha!
1950: Minato sacrifices his own life to stop it

1951: Sarutobi resumes role of 'Kage, knows the truth about Uchihas and Kyuubi attack (he is a direct link to Shodai)

1955: Sarutobi under counsel with the elder advisors and influence from Danzou's fear (Danzou is afraid of the power of Uchihas) agrees that the clan is too dangerous to live

1960: Uchiha Massacre

1965: Sasuke, Naruto, Team 7!


but do you guys see what i mean that a timeline helps visualize this tapestry Kish is waeving? I personally believe that the reason the Ucihas were eliminated was *BECAUSE* they are too dangerous to live.. but they were Konoha's own.. until the kyuubi was set upon the leaf..

when Sarutobi realizes this that a rogue Uchiha could ultimately do such an act.. that alone is too dangerous.. and the cost (in this case, the 4th Kage's life) is too much to pay so in order for no future catastrophic events unfolds.. they had the clan wiped out

at least, I think that's what happens.. Sarutobi isn't evil.. there must've been something that forced their hand.. I think that's where the kyuubi-minato death comes into play.. Sarutobi ordered the evillest of acts to do what is ultimately, a greater good..

hmm so what's this I hear about another 2 weeks until
Kish releases teh next ch?! grr! argh!

[Afro_Sannin]

Originally Posted by nejix321

Hey at least we know the 1st Hokage's last name, and possible Tsunade's.

Correction I think that is his first name. Usually clan names are the last names but they are always said first when iving a title. Like Uzumaki Naruto. Naruto is his first name but uzumaki is said first. So its safe to say that Senju is Shodaime's last name.

[SHADENINJA]

Sarutobi loved the village and everyone in it. He would ONLY attack the Uchihas if he thought they were a threat to the village, and a clan like that could be a threat to whoever they wanted. As we all know, the Uchihas possessed the power to potentially control the Kyuubi, and after the Kyuubi attacked once and did so much damage, they were probably willing to do anything to make sure it didn't happen again.

Itachi probably informed the higher ups of an Uchiha rebellion, and they asked him to solve their problem.

He was the strongest Uchiha other than Madara, and as we all know, the best person to fight a sharingan, is another person with the sharingan. He was the only one who could kill the Uchiha. He left his brother alive because of obvious reasons, although there are probably a few reasons we aren't clear on yet.

It should ahve been obvious that the Uchiha were up to soemthing. if you think about it, the Kyuubi attacked, and anyone with a sharingan should have been able to stop it, but instead it took the death of Yondaime to do it. Why?

They wanted it to succeed

Just a guess

[Poncho Sama]

Originally Posted by l0rdza0n

Last night upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore..

has anyone done a *TIMELINE* on current events.. history of Konoha.. specifically on recent revelations..?

why?

simple.. everyone is asking Why could Sarutobi order the hit on the Uchihas..? well.. this is what my mind pondered when the sandman visited me last night.. what if Sarutobi finally realized that some people are far too dangerous to be allowed to live? But then what triggered that..?

Ahh then we tie in things Kish already has shown us.. Kyuubi attacked Konoha.. 4th sacrificing himself to stop an unstoppable kyuubi..

this is where the timeline comes into play as a sample.. i'll use 1900s to make numbering easier but this is very very basic

1900: it began with the great ninja wars

1910: Uchihas and Senju rise to prominence above all other shinobi clans

1912: Shodai and Madara meet for the first time in battle.. mutual respect and admiration grew and a friendship was formed

1915: Konoha was founded! A new nation, the Hidden Laaf!

1920: Madara and Shodai has a falling out, legendary battle of two friends re-shaping the land, now forever known as "Valley of The End"

1925: Sarutobi becomes promoted to 3rd Hokage by Shodai and Nidame

1930: Sarutobi trains the Sannins

1940: Minato becomes 4th Hokage, under tutelage of Jiraiya

1950: Kyuubi attacks Konoha!
1950: Minato sacrifices his own life to stop it

1951: Sarutobi resumes role of 'Kage, knows the truth about Uchihas and Kyuubi attack (he is a direct link to Shodai)

1955: Sarutobi under counsel with the elder advisors and influence from Danzou's fear (Danzou is afraid of the power of Uchihas) agrees that the clan is too dangerous to live

1960: Uchiha Massacre

1965: Sasuke, Naruto, Team 7!


but do you guys see what i mean that a timeline helps visualize this tapestry Kish is waeving? I personally believe that the reason the Ucihas were eliminated was *BECAUSE* they are too dangerous to live.. but they were Konoha's own.. until the kyuubi was set upon the leaf..

when Sarutobi realizes this that a rogue Uchiha could ultimately do such an act.. that alone is too dangerous.. and the cost (in this case, the 4th Kage's life) is too much to pay so in order for no future catastrophic events unfolds.. they had the clan wiped out

at least, I think that's what happens.. Sarutobi isn't evil.. there must've been something that forced their hand.. I think that's where the kyuubi-minato death comes into play.. Sarutobi ordered the evillest of acts to do what is ultimately, a greater good..

hmm so what's this I hear about another 2 weeks until
Kish releases teh next ch?! grr! argh!

Your timeline is a little off.