Naruto Manga chapter 398 discussion.

[Poncho Sama]

Originally Posted by XxefroxX

its UCHIHA MADARA aka TOBI ( i guess )

No its not.

This is Fugaku

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WwDcGDccgSwfQNtmifgGxRkxs7u0JejAPccdBKupjCo1B30i1 i0fIM1A6EbkO8vAmpTyJZiK8jaoO2QDsHyKFohnEkOFKtlcoEo vABxiVU1WPlG6JBDhU0QvI2ZU9mZyX*urvKWgPO0/P?dc=4675617467950469971[/IMG]

[l0rdza0n]

something else to note..

i *LOVED* how kish made it that the eldest people were also the deadliest/most secretive..

knowledge is power.. and right now, right now.. a big big shocker bomb was dropped and i always wondered why the "elder advisors" were treated the way they were by the 'kage's and such.. it's because of the secrets they knew

loved how kish tied danzou-the 2 elder advisors and sarutobi as the only ones who knew the truth about the massacre

knowledge is power folks and the eldest are almost always the ones who have the most secrets.. instead of thinking of them as meek and old and weak.. nah nah nah

not true at all!

[Poncho Sama]

Originally Posted by _Metsuke_

Your conclusion is based on what fact? I'm taking a reasonable observation - (do you dispute the resemblance?) and examining what consequences that observation might have.

Here's my logic - which is entirely reasonable:

• We know Tsunade is the granddaughter of the First.
• We now know the first was the strongest leader of, initially, the rival clan of the Uchiha.
• We do not know the origins of Orochimaru.
• We know Kishi is a sadist and likes doing stuff like this.
• I observe that Orochimaru bears a striking resemblance to one of the best representations of Shodai (and his clan) yet.

I'm not saying they're brother and sister, just just that it is entirely possible that they both find their origins in the same clan. (is that in any way unreasonable considering we now know that the two clans formed Konoha?)

Seriously, feel free not to trash any idea that's not yours simply because it didn't come from you.

Oh, I do find it interesting that this puts yet another nail in the Tobito Theory. I'll have to update my sig.

So basically based on one picture in the manga Orochimaru and Tsunade are related. We've seen a million pictures of the first hokage. This has not come up a single time before.

[_Metsuke_]

Originally Posted by ponchocam

So basically based on one picture in the manga Orochimaru and Tsunade are related. We've seen a million pictures of the first hokage. This has not come up a single time before.

So your response is two-fold. First, why didn't we notice the resemblance before and second, no one else has argued this before. Based on these, either collectively or independently, my observation doesn't merit further discussion.

I respond as follows:

• The 'million' pictures we have had of Shodaime are of an older Shodaime - when he was actually shodaime. These would be those of the cliff, depictions during the third's fight with Oro, and the few flashbacks (if they are there) when we were learning about Tsunade. What these pictures fail to do is capture Shodaime before he was Shodaime. Further, the representation of Orochimaru as his 'true' self has always been of a younger man than Shodaime has been portrayed. So, this new picture of Shodaime, at an age closer to what we know of Orochimaru, I argue is more relevant than those 'million' pictures we've seen in the past.
• Second, as to why no one has raised this before - look at the responses to this chapter. I wasn't the first to post the idea that he looks an awful lot like Oro. I didn't read the whole thread, but on the single page where my post started, there were two others making the same comment. So I'm not out in left field on this.

[Poncho Sama]

Originally Posted by _Metsuke_

So your response is two-fold. First, why didn't we notice the resemblance before and second, no one else has argued this before. Based on these, either collectively or independently, my observation doesn't merit further discussion.

I respond as follows:

• The 'million' pictures we have had of Shodaime are of an older Shodaime - when he was actually shodaime. These would be those of the cliff, depictions during the third's fight with Oro, and the few flashbacks (if they are there) when we were learning about Tsunade. What these pictures fail to do is capture Shodaime before he was Shodaime. Further, the representation of Orochimaru as his 'true' self has always been of a younger man than Shodaime has been portrayed. So, this new picture of Shodaime, at an age closer to what we know of Orochimaru, I argue is more relevant than those 'million' pictures we've seen in the past.
• Second, as to why no one has raised this before - look at the responses to this chapter. I wasn't the first to post the idea that he looks an awful lot like Oro. I didn't read the whole thread, but on the single page where my post started, there were two others making the same comment. So I'm not out in left field on this.

Whatever, believe what you want to believe. Who knows it could be possible after all naruto is related to the fourth hokage like everyone thought.

[_Metsuke_]

I just didn't want discussion to be foreclosed. It could be completely bogus as well. Heck, Tobi might turn out to be Madara and Obito...

[The stig]

Wow, the 1st is related to oro because of similarities.

Just like how pein is related to the 4th and naruto.

How ino is related to deidera.

How rin is related to sakura.

[dpt101]

Originally Posted by scarface101

Wow, the 1st is related to oro because of similarities.

Just like how pein is related to the 4th and naruto.

How ino is related to deidera.

How rin is related to sakura.

I was going to say the same thing. Yes, we've seen similarity in appearance show a relation between characters before. In Asuma and Hokage Sarutobi, as well as in Naruto and Minato. However, in both those instances the resemblances were uncanny. But there have been just as many red herrings when it comes to relationships based off appearance. It only makes sense that when you draw such a number of characters, some will wind up looking similar.

[Poncho Sama]

Is it possible that the reason Minato sealed the Kyuubi inside naruto was because he was ordered to by the elders?

[_Metsuke_]

Originally Posted by ponchocam

Is it possible that the reason Minato sealed the Kyuubi inside naruto was because he was ordered to by the elders?

That would require the elders unleashing the kyuubi on Konoha. Not an entirely unlikely proposition considering the nature of the older generations.

[dpt101]

Originally Posted by ponchocam

Is it possible that the reason Minato sealed the Kyuubi inside naruto was because he was ordered to by the elders?

I'd believe it. He could've done it of his own accord, though that seems like an extremely cruel thing for a character as seemingly benevolent as Minato to do to his own son. In either case, maybe he presumed that Naruto would be taken care of and held in a higher regard as the son of the village savior. Unfortunately the village instead viewed him as the monster box.

[dpt101]

Originally Posted by _Metsuke_

That would require the elders unleashing the kyuubi on Konoha. Not an entirely unlikely proposition considering the nature of the older generations.

I don't quite understand what you're saying. Why would the elders have to be responsible for unleashing the Kyuubi to demand that Minato place the Kyuubi in his son?

[San Goku]

wow, a new revolation eh, every developed country has its dark past and they try to cover it up. I'm glad Kishi showed Konoha isn't the innocent country it was lead to believe. 1st Hokage looks awsome in his younger days, if he could fight against probably the strongest sharingan of all time, he must of been urber strong. This chapter was SERIOUS BUSINESS, THIS STORY FROM HERE ON OUT WILL BE SERIOUS BUSINESS.

[l0rdza0n]

Originally Posted by San Goku

wow, a new revolation eh, every developed country has its dark past and they try to cover it up. I'm glad Kishi showed Konoha isn't the innocent country it was lead to believe. 1st Hokage looks awsome in his younger days, if he could fight against probably the strongest sharingan of all time, he must of been urber strong. This chapter was SERIOUS BUSINESS, THIS STORY FROM HERE ON OUT WILL BE SERIOUS BUSINESS.

I badly want a Naruto OVA? is that what they call those? like NARUTO-X!!!

[San Goku]

It will be in shippudden when the time comes most likely. I think Madara is only assuming that only those 3 knows. Its possible Tsunade knows as well.

[Seimron]

This chapter was pathetic all we really learned was that Itachi killed his clan on orders. Kishi is getting me pissed of with the wasting of pages like Naruto 398 page 13 | One Manga
Naruto 398 page 11 | One Manga
or the chapter before this
Naruto 397 page 07 | One Manga
Naruto 397 page 12 | One Manga
Naruto 397 page 13 | One Manga
He takes a week off then in 17 pages only manages to reveal one new thing...
I think it's obvious now Sasuke is going after Konoha...

[SilentSneeze]

Loved that chapter but it makes me wonder what the fuck happened to the senju clan?

I mean obviously there's Tsunade but what about the rest of them, they were going toe to toe with the Uchiha 80 years ago as the 2 strongest clans around yet now there's only one of them left, must have been something similar to what happened with the Uchiha if there's none left, like some sort of mass murder, maybe that's why Madara and Hashirama met at VOTE, perhaps Madara tried to wipe out his main rivals clan and pissed him off something royal.

Brings the whole Danzou and ROOT issue back into play too, damn there's so much to think about after that chapter.

[Milanista23]

Well, for me, this is very clear:

This is all a buildup for Naruto Vs Sasuke fight!!

I was wondering why would such a fight come into picture, but this chapter could bring this fight into reality, especially that one of the cover pages lately showed such a possibility.

On the other hand, we know how smart is Tobi, he could be building such hatred in Sasuke for Konoha to bring him to Akatuski. Sasuke is being a fool who is getting fooled by everyone, first with Itachi now with Madara! He just gets emotional withing thinking of the real reasons!

[IonRom]

I agree with the people who suggest that Sasuke is a new piece in the game that Tobi plays. Maybe he is a backup if Pein fails to get Naruto.
An indirect evidence that the higher ups order the elimination of the clan is the fact on that night no Konoha shinobi is shown coming to stop Itachi. But this is shown from Itachi 's perspective.
I still don' t believe that an order by the 3rd was given.
Tobi might not have a spy in Konoha who told this, Itachi could told him. Tobi could deduce it on his own, a lot of time passed since the murders. Tobi is not stupid.
A new question why wouldn' t Madara kill Itachi for destroying the clan on orders from Konoha. After all he was supposed to be his disciple and follow his orders and following orders from other authority figure undermines him
Yes, the resemblance between Oro and Senju are striking but as scarface101 suggested it may be just that. Tsunade doesn' t refer in familiar terms to Oro, in this manga and in others people with family ties use some titles when talking or refering to each other.

[ACCUNE]

Itachi must have pleaded with the elders to keep Sasuke alive.