Adam and Eve

[Yedi]

I have wondered on this dilemma for a while.

God is all knowing and all mighty ... then how come he didn't know that the snake would make Eva eat the apple? God even said this when he did see Adams and Evas odd behavior: "Have you eaten an apple from the tree of knowledge?", and why should he ask a question when he is all knowing and all mighty? This only leads to three conclusions in my mind:

1. God according to the bible isn't all knowing.

2. If god isn't all knowing he can't be almighty, therefore the god of the bible doesn't exist. The bible is simple an ancient poorly written story, which have countless flaws. (which I believe it is)

3. Disregarding the two first conclusion is that God let the Snake trick Eve and Adam just so he could torture human kind. In other words he is a fucked up god whom likes to torture people and etcetera.

What do you think of the subject?

[Azn]

God knew, but he gave us freedom of choice and will, which is why he didn't intefere.

[Yedi]

Originally Posted by Azn

God knew, but he gave us freedom of choice and will, which is why he didn't intefere.

So you say he gave Adam and Eve a life of misery just because he wanted to give human free will? whats bullshit is that? he could have done that without the snake .

[AnarchoElk]

What God basically did was entrapment. Which is illegal for cops to do.

What a moral God. . .

God knew that they would be tempted by the snake, without that snake, the temptation isn't there, and the fruit is of no consequence.

Never mind that, God could have planted that tree elsewhere away from them.

Its not about free will. God went out of his way to fuck Adam and Eve over.

Of course, creation never happened, and thus Adam and Eve are make believe.

[bankaiwalker]

I Have some issues with the adam and eve story. Personally not all things in the bible can be fact like some people blindly believe. The chapters were hand chosen by some dumb asses and some were left out. Thats why I pray that while reading God leads me toward what I should know because I know the bible has been tampered with numerous times. I believe in God, Jesus and the trinity but Im not supid. I know the bible has been tampered with. I think adam and eve is just one of those stories. I think some of those things may have happen but not the way that it was told, maybe a different way, we will never know. Put it like this, when people everywhere back in the day thought the world was flat, I would have been one of those people who didn't because of the proof around us that proved otherwise. I don't blindly follow anything.I think the story can mean alot of things though, but this is just my opinion.

[AnarchoElk]

Put it like this, when people everywhere back in the day thought the world was flat, I would have been one of those people who didn't because of the proof around us that proved otherwise. I don't blindly follow anything.I think the story can mean alot of things though, but this is just my opinion.[/quote]

Originally Posted by bankaiwalker

I believe in God, Jesus and the trinity but Im not supid.

DOES NOT COMPUTE

Originally Posted by bankaiwalker

I Have some issues with the adam and eve story.

Some? Could you go into detail about both the problems, and what you believe are NOT problems?

Also, you DO know the difference between the Old Testament and the new right?

Originally Posted by bankaiwalker

Put it like this, when people everywhere back in the day thought the world was flat, I would have been one of those people who didn't because of the proof around us that proved otherwise. I don't blindly follow anything.I think the story can mean alot of things though, but this is just my opinion.

No I don't think you would. Obviously the evidence your religion is false hasn't penetrated the bricks, so why would the evidence the world was round? You would have found evidence supporting your world was flat idea, however illogical, and pretend because you have "evidence" you're obviously right.

I could see flat-time you in my mind:
"How can the world be round? People would fall off the bottom. OBVIOUSLY its flat. I mean, look at the evidence!"

[bRaSuKa]

If you can tell me how the people who contributed to the Bible would be able to even know Adam and Eve existed and their whole story then I will believe...as of now, nope sorry not a believer

[bankaiwalker]

[/quote]

Originally Posted by AnarchoElk

Put it like this, when people everywhere back in the day thought the world was flat, I would have been one of those people who didn't because of the proof around us that proved otherwise. I don't blindly follow anything.I think the story can mean alot of things though, but this is just my opinion.

DOES NOT COMPUTE

why not?



well like i said a while back. I think we would be good buddies, u seem like a cool guy. remind me of my friend Bill. U look like him and it seems u have the same views. But man, it seems like u hate people who believe in or maybe it just gets on your nerves that people can believe in such foolishness because to u it dosen't make any sense to believe in something like this. U want to believe we came from fish in the ocean.

Well 1st of all there were two sides, People who believed that the world was flat and people who didn't. All Im saying is I would have believed in Aristotles views (who believed the world was round) before Democritus (who believed the world was flat). U see Im gonna correct something,
this remark u made:

"How can the world be round? people would fall off the bottom. OBVIOUSLY its flat. I mean, look at the evidence!"

That is what u would say not me

this is what i would say

"elevated lights or areas of land are visible to sailors at greater distances than those which were less elevated, the curvature of the sea was obviously responsible for this. also observers can see further when their eyes are elevated which could only mean that the earth was round."

Back then There was NO SOLID PROOF OF THIS, but u on the other hand would have needed proof even though this is evidence and would get mad at me just because I think otherwise like u are doing now.

Some? Could you go into detail about both the problems, and what you believe are NOT problems?

Also, you DO know the difference between the Old Testament and the new right?

Yes I do know the difference between the old and new testament and as far as what I do believe are problems and what are not problems? Well 1st of all the bible is full of metphors and figurative language. There can be different meanings all over the bible but u probably don't care since it's the bible and not shakespeare or something. If it was shakespeare u would not be so harsh u would know the meaning for example, a quote by william shakespeare

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances"

U know the world is not really a stage and u know what it means by saying that men and women are merely players. But if this was in the bible u would say there is no stage, the world can not be a stage it's impossible and how can men and women be part of a stage that dosen't exist, what the hell is this BULLSHIT!

No I don't think you would. Obviously the evidence your religion is false hasn't penetrated the bricks, so why would the evidence the world was round? You would have found evidence supporting your world was flat idea, however illogical, and pretend because you have "evidence" you're obviously right.

I could see flat-time you in my mind:
"How can the world be round? People would fall off the bottom. OBVIOUSLY its flat. I mean, look at the evidence!"

I don't have a religion. I am not catholic, baptist or what ever and to me the bible is another book. Science is what i look at to know that there is a God. When I do read the bible (a man written book) I ask for God's guidance. I just refuse to believe that we all came from a one celled organism derived from chemicals that came together at the right time just by chance to form the complicated beings we are today...........come on man, take down some of your bricks and let some light shine through, just a lil.

[Bonkai Renji]

what Azn said is true.

god gave us freewill but it came with a price and it was abused by Adam and Eve when they ate the fruit of knowledge. Also god doesn't interfere unless you ask him to. Please tell me what would the fun be if your creations didn't have their own personality and they were just mindless robots.

[PC Chris]

I thought the Adam and Eve story wasn't believed even by Christians? >_>

I mean it's quite obvious we all didn't come from Adam and Eve the historical time line blows that idea out of the water.

But just for "haha's" I'll say that God is a very complex guy, He wants us to believe but yet he apparently gives no evidence or any sort of logical backing to believe in him. I mean if I created existence and wanted my subjects to know I existed I would have left behind concrete proof I was real. I'm pretty sure I could do that if I was omni-potent.

So why does god do this? Who knows?

Gods the type of person who would give man free will knowing full well he would defy his creators better judgment. I could probably see it now man eats from the fruit realizes he's naked then god just jumps out and goes "GOTCHA"

Theres no reasoning with a man like God.

[Bonkai Renji]

People should believe what they want and no one else should judge them about it. So i don't see why people are making a big deal about this.

God is one of the biggest things that people could say how the world and the universe exist.

[Keerua]

Originally Posted by Captain Renj

People should believe what they want and no one else should judge them about it. So i don't see why people are making a big deal about this.

God is one of the biggest things that people could say how the world and the universe exist.

I wish that was true, i have been mocked for "He thinks we are monkies hahah" or what about the shit scientists have been put through by the church for 2000 years. Apparently people are supposed to respect religion but that is it, respect the other way is not necessary.

What?

[Denny Crane]

Originally Posted by PC Chris

I thought the Adam and Eve story wasn't believed even by Christians? >_>

I mean it's quite obvious we all didn't come from Adam and Eve the historical time line blows that idea out of the water.

But just for "haha's" I'll say that God is a very complex guy, He wants us to believe but yet he apparently gives no evidence or any sort of logical backing to believe in him. I mean if I created existence and wanted my subjects to know I existed I would have left behind concrete proof I was real. I'm pretty sure I could do that if I was omni-potent.

So why does god do this? Who knows?

Gods the type of person who would give man free will knowing full well he would defy his creators better judgment. I could probably see it now man eats from the fruit realizes he's naked then god just jumps out and goes "GOTCHA"

Theres no reasoning with a man like God.

it all depends how literal people take the bible
some people are adamant that the world was created 6000 years ago

and the only eve i'll believe in is the mitochondrial eve

[AnarchoElk]

PC Chris

Actually, not only did we all come from Adam and Eve, but we also are all descendants of Noah. This fairytale is a lot more readily believable by Christians, despite how BS it is as well, and it alleges that 4000 or so years ago, everybody except Noah's family drowned, and in that time, we have populated to the near 7 billion population we're at now, with this much racial diversity. Truly a feat considering God made us in his image, and evolution is false.

Not only does he WANT us to believe, and will not give any evidence, but he will torture you forever if you don't, just because.

BW

Same here. It's just that right now, we're in the debates. I consider it like friends who step into the ring for a boxing or MMA match. You gotta but that aside, and beat the crap out of eachother, knowing it'll be fine once that bell rings. I have plenty of religious friends, and I get along fine with them, and when we argue about religion, I will go for the throat like you wouldn't believe. But once thats over with, ti's fine. Also, damn straight we cane from fish in the ocean. But that was Billions of years ago. For a more recent evolution, we're all African. Which is why I don't get why black people get so mad at white people for the N word. We're ALL black.

I'm not getting mad at you, I just think hindsight is 20/20, and you wouldn't be saying the same thing if the conclusions have already been drawn.

Well, I wouldn't be as harsh on Shakespeare because people don't believe that his plays are non-fiction. When people start saying the Bible is factual, then start to pick and choose which verses are metaphor, and which verses are literal, AND use it as a guidebook for life, then I start to have a problem. Especially when yelling down walls, Jesus with a sword sticking out of his mouth, worldwide floods, and creation myths are concerned.

Would that be the light of zombie jesus?
Also, you know how long this universe has been around right? I believe it was around 15 Billion years, and I believe our world is somewhere around 5. So our planet was 10 billion years before it came to be, and then it had too cool down before life sparked. And this is one known planet with life, out of the innumerable amount of stars with planets out there.
And then there is the question about whether or not there was a universe before ours. There is a good chance there is a cyclical movement to the life of a universe, in which case, thats an infinite amount of time. Now, when you deal with an infinite amount of time, and an infinite amount of planets, its not chance that life will come about, its just a matter of when.

[kafukai]

Gosh, you even heard about the sea rebellion?! It's an inside story in the Bible.
Well, God create sea creatures: Serpent(Not snake, there's a difference), Whale, Sea King, the giant crocodiles and more that I'm not remember. Eventually God demolish them and the moral is that God is omnipotent.

[AnarchoElk]

God cannot be omnipotent because of a logical fallacy between power and knowledge, and the inescapable trap it creates.

[bankaiwalker]

Originally Posted by AnarchoElk

PC Chris

Actually, not only did we all come from Adam and Eve, but we also are all descendants of Noah. This fairytale is a lot more readily believable by Christians, despite how BS it is as well, and it alleges that 4000 or so years ago, everybody except Noah's family drowned, and in that time, we have populated to the near 7 billion population we're at now, with this much racial diversity. Truly a feat considering God made us in his image, and evolution is false.

Not only does he WANT us to believe, and will not give any evidence, but he will torture you forever if you don't, just because.

BW

Same here. It's just that right now, we're in the debates. I consider it like friends who step into the ring for a boxing or MMA match. You gotta but that aside, and beat the crap out of eachother, knowing it'll be fine once that bell rings. I have plenty of religious friends, and I get along fine with them, and when we argue about religion, I will go for the throat like you wouldn't believe. But once thats over with, ti's fine. Also, damn straight we cane from fish in the ocean. But that was Billions of years ago. For a more recent evolution, we're all African. Which is why I don't get why black people get so mad at white people for the N word. We're ALL black.

I'm not getting mad at you, I just think hindsight is 20/20, and you wouldn't be saying the same thing if the conclusions have already been drawn.

Well, I wouldn't be as harsh on Shakespeare because people don't believe that his plays are non-fiction. When people start saying the Bible is factual, then start to pick and choose which verses are metaphor, and which verses are literal, AND use it as a guidebook for life, then I start to have a problem. Especially when yelling down walls, Jesus with a sword sticking out of his mouth, worldwide floods, and creation myths are concerned.

Would that be the light of zombie jesus?
Also, you know how long this universe has been around right? I believe it was around 15 Billion years, and I believe our world is somewhere around 5. So our planet was 10 billion years before it came to be, and then it had too cool down before life sparked. And this is one known planet with life, out of the innumerable amount of stars with planets out there.
And then there is the question about whether or not there was a universe before ours. There is a good chance there is a cyclical movement to the life of a universe, in which case, thats an infinite amount of time. Now, when you deal with an infinite amount of time, and an infinite amount of planets, its not chance that life will come about, its just a matter of when.

Yes I definately understand what u are saying. You are right when it comes to debating, even when u r friends it's like a boxing match or MMA u go for the throat, lol, u made a good point because afterwards it's all good.

But another is when it comes to the bible Im not your traditional christian. I question a lot of things in the bible especailly when they are tring to say it is the tuth, I pull the bullshyt card on it to. I call it religous propaganda. Adam and eve I question, noah I question, Mary being a virgin her whole damn life even after Jesus was born and she is married? Yea I question. But I don't deny God or Jesus because to me there is to much showing me otherwise and I don't rely on faith.

I am not one of those fire and brimstone christians, I believe God could be some being from another dimension or an alien race beyond our understanding.

I would be thrown out of the church for that, but like u said the universe is to large, F$%k that, it's infinitely too large, that out of all of those planets and solar systems out there it's just a matter of time before life happens. But the thing is, matter, atoms, mass, and the way everything works, just physics itself. Its all to much in order. No way it happened by chance but by design.

But about Adam and eve.......we all can pull our bullshyt cards on it, some people can choose to believe some expects about it, some people can choose not to take it literally but see it as a way of explaining how we came into sin, or like u....... just out right call it all bullshyt but we can't say to somebody who believes it not to, because none of us were actually there.



Hell if Mary really stayed a virgin her whole life I would be a monkeys ass and I would give Joseph major props for staying married to a woman who wasn't giving it up but Im not gonna tell soembody not to believe that but it's still bullshyt to me.

[kafukai]

Originally Posted by AnarchoElk

God cannot be omnipotent because of a logical fallacy between power and knowledge, and the inescapable trap it creates.

This inside story improve it, God create an evil creatures with God's knowledge that they'll atttack God and the human race and then God destory them because of God can do it.

[Yedi]

Originally Posted by kafukai

This inside story improve it, God create an evil creatures with God's knowledge that they'll atttack God and the human race and then God destory them because of God can do it.

For what gain does he by creating evil? he could just make human commit evil acts if they wanted or not instead of getting tricked into doing it.

[AnarchoElk]

Originally Posted by kafukai

This inside story improve it, God create an evil creatures with God's knowledge that they'll atttack God and the human race and then God destory them because of God can do it.

One, that doesn't prove he is omnipotent, just touched in the head.

Plase, address my claim that omnipotence is impossible due to a logical fallacy between knowledge and power before you make ignorant claims about omnipotence, considering it cannot exist in the first place.