Is Exorcism real?

[Syfer Van Hyden]

Originally Posted by pschy_leprae

rolf remember that time when Amar told us his mom was posed by jewish demon and was talking Hebrew ?

He's always full of crap. I have a huge list about his BS but this is not the place to be talking about it.

Originally Posted by acap_au3

no way man...there is not a such thing...come on ppl we a updated not outdated....XD

What does that have to do with anything? Give us ur opinion as to why u don't believe in such things.

[PC Chris]

Might be from the whole lack of evidence thing.

[Syfer Van Hyden]

Originally Posted by PC Chris

Might be from the whole lack of evidence thing.

Ye but i don't see how being "updated" and "outdated" has anything to do with this. It's like saying "those who celebrate their culture's traditions/customs r outdated ppl."

[pschy_leprae]

Originally Posted by PC Chris

Might be from the whole lack of evidence thing.

umm you do realize that lack of evidence makes things just unproven , you need actually to come up with null theory and prove it empirically to make thing none existent .

[PC Chris]

Originally Posted by pschy_leprae

umm you do realize that lack of evidence makes things just unproven , you need actually to come up with null theory and prove it empirically to make thing none existent .

True but if theres no evidence wheres the reason to believe it? of course if it's unproven it could still exist, but without a shred of evidence for it. It's a leap of faith to believe in it.

[PyroDog]

umm you do realize that lack of evidence makes things just unproven , you need actually to come up with null theory and prove it empirically to make thing none existent .

but as pcchris said, that doesn't mean you should believe in it either. If I were to point to a random planet 78 light years away and declare that unicorns lived there with the firmest conviction, you'd still have to be a fucking nut case to believe me. You wouldn't be able to emperically prove me WRONG, but to believe that unicorns existed on that particular planet I chose 78 light years away should qualify you as insane. There's a CHANCE that unicorns might live there, you should concede that it's highly unlikely, especially since I myself have no way of knowing such a thing, and am obviously pulling it out of my ass.

So the "devil" possessing people is really just nonsense and bullshit.

[pschy_leprae]

Originally Posted by PC Chris

True but if theres no evidence wheres the reason to believe it? of course if it's unproven it could still exist, but without a shred of evidence for it. It's a leap of faith to believe in it.

yep it works either way ...
i really don't see anything wrong with believing it as long as people don't take it to preposterous degree .....which they always achieve some how even with the most harmless ideas , human tendency i suppose l.

[PC Chris]

i really don't see anything wrong with believing it as long as people don't take it to preposterous degree

If you're referring to exorcism's then I think you might not be thinking about it thoroughly, Simply because the whole nature of exorcism is taken to a preposterous degree.

[Silent-Ichigo]

I think exorcism is real because i've seen one. When i was in the philippines, i was in a catholic private school, the priests were doing something to the possessed guy in side our chapel. Also our school used to be a cemetary.

[PyroDog]

i think excorcism is not real becuz i talked with a priest who was doing one and he said its all bullshit and they do it for shits and gigles. lol. also this was a christian skool.

[Syfer Van Hyden]

Originally Posted by PyroDog

i think excorcism is not real becuz i talked with a priest who was doing one and he said its all bullshit and they do it for shits and gigles. lol. also this was a christian skool.

That's just one priest's opinion, and as far as I'm concerned he probably is not even a real priest if he admits that he just lies to people and rips them off.

[PC Chris]

Originally Posted by Syfer Van Hyden

That's just one priest's opinion, and as far as I'm concerned he probably is not even a real priest if he admits that he just lies to people and rips them off.

Definitely why would the scam artist admit that to someone of the general public what their true intentions are, seriously something isn't quite adding up here.

[krozar]

Like anything supernatural, I am not buying any stock in it. Anyways, what's the point of free will if people are possessed by demons?

Sounds to me like early justification. The supernatural realm is how things were justified before knowledge of phenomenon came about. Such as people just going insane all of a sudden. Many wars were waged throughout the history of human civilization but nobody ever recorded "PTSD" until the 20th century.

Every ancient culture that you come across has a supernatural explaination for every observable phenomenon and they often have extensive theories on astronomy (astrology back then). Ptolemaic thought on astronomy lasted for 1000 years but was horribly wrong. However, it did what it was supposed to do--support the idea of a geocentric universe (i.e. was religiously motivated).

With anything spiritual like that and it being outside of being quantitatively and qualitatively measurable as scientific study requires, then the scientific community should only bother with what it can measure and that would be the human effects such as psychological and sociological studies.

So whether you believe in it or not, it should not affect scientific methodology at all in the least so in that regard it is irrelevant. It's when you bring faith into scientific methodology that there is fallacy, such as we have seen with Geocentricity and that we see today with ID. Because let's face it, ID did not originate from some sort of collection of studies, but instead came from a faith-based argument which spurred some studies which cannot possibly be objective (and thus scientific)

[ACCUNE]

The Devil and demons follow the rules of Free will as well.In the bible Jesus said "Resist the Devil and he will flee".Once you give them permission by various actions involuntary and voluntary of you knowing,they dwell within you.

[Rafcio]

Originally Posted by ACCUNE

The Devil and demons follow the rules of Free will as well.In the bible Jesus said "Resist the Devil and he will flee".Once you give them permission by various actions involuntary and voluntary of you knowing,they dwell within you.

This sounds insightful. Do share your sources. I'm interested in the identification of the passage "Resist the Devil and he will flee", as well as any other evidence of your claims.

[krozar]

Originally Posted by ACCUNE

The Devil and demons follow the rules of Free will as well.In the bible Jesus said "Resist the Devil and he will flee".Once you give them permission by various actions involuntary and voluntary of you knowing,they dwell within you.

Then that would defeat the purpose of exorcism if in fact possession is by free will. In that case it appears to be alluding to timeless lessons of not keeping bad company, resisting peer pressure, and the like. Such a passage hardly supports exorcism; Conversely, it seems to argue against the need for such--at least the ritualistic exorcism that exists today.

@ Rafcio it's from James 4:7 (NIV)

"Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

But a problem with the Bible is that another verse will say something which counters that one. =/

ex.

"In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an evil spirit. He cried out at the top of his voice, ‘Ha! What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!’ ‘Be quiet!’ Jesus said sternly. ‘Come out of him!’ Then the demon threw the man down before them all and came out without injuring him." (Luke 4:33-35)

and...

"Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." (1 Peter 5)

[ACCUNE]

Originally Posted by Rafcio

This sounds insightful. Do share your sources. I'm interested in the identification of the passage "Resist the Devil and he will flee", as well as any other evidence of your claims.

I sorry I believe James said this(my mistake) as was stated by Krozar,but Jesus did show an example on how he resisted the Devil while he was in the wilderness being tempted.

[Rafcio]

If you read further on beyond the James 4:7 it's clear that it does not refer to a demon fleeing from inside of you, but simply him keeping away from you.

Jesus being tempted by Satan during his 40 days in the desert has little to do with demons dwelling within you when you give them a permission.

There's actually not that much about demonic possessions and exorcism in the Bible.


I do have a passage about one to accompany Krozar's though:

Luke 9: 37-43
37 The next day, after they had come down the mountain, a large crowd met Jesus. 38 A man in the crowd called out to him, “Teacher, I beg you to look at my son, my only child. 39 An evil spirit keeps seizing him, making him scream. It throws him into convulsions so that he foams at the mouth. It batters him and hardly ever leaves him alone. 40 I begged your disciples to cast out the spirit, but they couldn’t do it.”

41 Jesus said, “You faithless and corrupt people! How long must I be with you and put up with you?” Then he said to the man, “Bring your son here.”

42 As the boy came forward, the demon knocked him to the ground and threw him into a violent convulsion. But Jesus rebuked the evil[h] spirit and healed the boy. Then he gave him back to his father. 43 Awe gripped the people as they saw this majestic display of God’s power.



I venture to guess Jesus did not follow up on the boy's later epileptic shocks.

[ACCUNE]

I found a verse on Demon possession and free will.

2 Cor 11:3-4

3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

[N0sf3ra2]

well i've personally have gone through an exorcism...i didn't have anything in me lol. but my mother and other people did. i honestly believe that there are some things out there that we can't exactly define or explain.