Muhammed and Jesus

[The~Legend~90]

Yedi i think somepeople here answered ur question perfect and right answer ( Dauragon13 , narutobadsha posts ) and i agree with them 100% and thanks for clearing some people ideas

[narutobadsha]

Originally Posted by Majin

Muhammad married a 6 year old and had sex with her at 9, and considering she was his favourite sex partner but never got with child (as we know) i'd say her sexual organs did get damaged.

here we go again, have you ever realized that you need to see a mental doctor. I'm saying this b/c of your ridiculously stupid arguments.

1- The Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) did consummate the marriage with our mother, 'Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her), when she became a women and she was 9 years old at that time. Yeh, so what? An adult male consummated the marriage with an adult woman! You have problems with two adults marrying each other? Get your brain checked!
2- Yes, she (May Allah be pleased with her) was his favourite wife. So, you have problems with couples loving each other? It only shows that you have a quarter of a brain cell!
3- You do not have a single shred of evidence which proves that the person who's supposedly was abused said anything bad about the supposedly abuser. She only spoke good of him and how much he (peace be upon him) loved her and so did she.
4- Technically speaking Mr genius Shaykh, every virgin's sexual organ's are damaged (for some it maybe more painful, for some it maybe less) when its her first time, regardless of her age. So according to you, every man married to a virgin is a abuser.

as far concerning, this other evangelic smoking nonsense, I have nothing to say.

[Lokki]

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

1- The Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) did consummate the marriage with our mother, 'Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her), when she became a women and she was 9 years old at that time. Yeh, so what? An adult male consummated the marriage with an adult woman! You have problems with two adults marrying each other? Get your brain checked!

Actually an 9 years old is quite far away from adult even biologically. SO no, it is STILL no way adult male consummated the marriage with an adult woman. It is an adult male consummated the marriage with an under aged little girl. Even if it was quite normal at those times (and why not today within those, who follow current religion), we don't have to approve it now or even keep it as somehow acceptable or even reasonable. Quite opposite.

Though i don't accept the idea, that people crucified a normal person, whose only message was "people should be a little nicer to each other".

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

3- You do not have a single shred of evidence which proves that the person who's supposedly was abused said anything bad about the supposedly abuser. She only spoke good of him and how much he (peace be upon him) loved her and so did she.

History is written by the victors, they say. Basically, not everything gets written and i hardly can imagine, what goes in the mind of little girl, when *4 times bigger old man comes over and takes her...

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

4- Technically speaking Mr genius Shaykh, every virgin's sexual organ's are damaged (for some it maybe more painful, for some it maybe less) when its her first time, regardless of her age. So according to you, every man married to a virgin is a abuser.

Technically speaking, when you thrust your dick inside of an 9 year old girl, you cannot know if it fits to the place it is going. And if it doesn't fit...well, then it will make more room quite violently. And it will be painful.
SO basically, fucking an 9 years old girl isn't just another virging. she is a little child, for Pete's' sake.

As far concerning...religion as general and in anyway cn be quite sick stuff.

[Majin]

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

here we go again, have you ever realized that you need to see a mental doctor. I'm saying this b/c of your ridiculously stupid arguments.

1- The Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) did consummate the marriage with our mother, 'Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her), when she became a women and she was 9 years old at that time. Yeh, so what? An adult male consummated the marriage with an adult woman! You have problems with two adults marrying each other? Get your brain checked!
2- Yes, she (May Allah be pleased with her) was his favourite wife. So, you have problems with couples loving each other? It only shows that you have a quarter of a brain cell!
3- You do not have a single shred of evidence which proves that the person who's supposedly was abused said anything bad about the supposedly abuser. She only spoke good of him and how much he (peace be upon him) loved her and so did she.
4- Technically speaking Mr genius Shaykh, every virgin's sexual organ's are damaged (for some it maybe more painful, for some it maybe less) when its her first time, regardless of her age. So according to you, every man married to a virgin is a abuser.

as far concerning, this other evangelic smoking nonsense, I have nothing to say.

Just to clarify because were definitely not on the same page.

This is a nine year old girl.



This is not a nine year old girl

[narutobadsha]

Originally Posted by Lokki

Actually an 9 years old is quite far away from adult even biologically. SO no, it is STILL no way adult male consummated the marriage with an adult woman. It is an adult male consummated the marriage with an under aged little girl. Even if it was quite normal at those times (and why not today within those, who follow current religion), we don't have to approve it now or even keep it as somehow acceptable or even reasonable. Quite opposite.

A picture below debunks your ignorance! 'Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) became woman as she had hit puberty and puberty is the only absolute law of the nature to determine someone's adulthood. You can rant and commit emotional fallacy all you want but it doesn't prove your point

Originally Posted by Lokki

History is written by the victors, they say. Basically, not everything gets written and i hardly can imagine, what goes in the mind of little girl, when *4 times bigger old man comes over and takes her...

hahahaha, LAMO! Man, you people crack me up. Is that all you can say? Why pick and choose? Why do you take the historical evidence which tells us about whole marriage thing? How come that is reliable but the other one isn't. Just to expose your ignorance further more, all this has been narrated by our mother, 'Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her), her marriage and her relationship with her husband.

Originally Posted by Lokki

Technically speaking, when you thrust your dick inside of an 9 year old girl, you cannot know if it fits to the place it is going. And if it doesn't fit...well, then it will make more room quite violently. And it will be painful.
SO basically, fucking an 9 years old girl isn't just another virging. she is a little child, for Pete's' sake.

As I have explained above, she wasn't a child, get this through your head! How do you know that it fits for woman who is older than 9 or 18? Wouldn't it be the same case for an older virgin woman? As I said before, virgin will feel the pain regardless of her age, some less some more. So according to you people, let's call all men abusers! In some countries it is ok to have sex with 13 years old girls so maybe you want to explain that before attack the noble character of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). How come you attackers never say anything about that? So 13 years old is a woman virgin whol will feel less pain? Give me a break!

Also, it is well known in Islam that a person cannot engage in sexual intercourse with his wife if it causes her physical or phscological harm, regardless of her age. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: "There is to be no harming, nor reciprocating of harm" (Reported in Musnad Ahmad, classified as authentic by scholars of hadith). So for an instance if it is painful for virgin, then in Islam it is forbidden to force it down until she is able for it.

Originally Posted by Majin

Just to clarify because were definitely not on the same page.

agreed, because i know it will take sometime before you would know what hit you.

Originally Posted by Majin

This is a nine year old girl.

This is also nine years old

[votehill4pres]

i am muslim and what most christians fall to see sometimes is that we see jesus as being just as important as they do, we believe in the end it is jesus and not mohammed that comes back, the only difference is that we believe god when he said there is only one god, so to us jesus is perhaps the most important prophet, we just talk about mohammed alot cause he brought us the religion, but jesus to us is even more important, many christians dont know this about muslims, we are much closer to christians than any other religion yet we couldnt be farther apart in terms of relations

[Lokki]

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

A picture below debunks your ignorance! 'Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) became woman as she had hit puberty and puberty is the only absolute law of the nature to determine someone's adulthood. You can rant and commit emotional fallacy all you want but it doesn't prove your point

Actually if you have ever learned something about biology, you would know that just because some 9 years old kid starts to bleed, it doesn't mean she is an adult yet. The first time young girl starts to have periods, she is only BEGINNING her growth to adulthood. That doesn't mean she is even near for being an adult woman. There is BIG difference between a 9 years old virgin, and an adult (let's say even 16 years old) virgin.
SO basically, i'm talking about concrete biology, when you refer to an old book. SO only one of us is committing emotional fallacy, and it ain't me.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

hahahaha, LAMO! Man, you people crack me up. Is that all you can say? Why pick and choose? Why do you take the historical evidence which tells us about whole marriage thing? How come that is reliable but the other one isn't. Just to expose your ignorance further more, all this has been narrated by our mother, 'Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her), her marriage and her relationship with her husband.

Becouse i know, that in those days it was quite normal to have VERY young wives. However, i don't have to approve that.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

Wouldn't it be the same case for an older virgin woman? As I said before, virgin will feel the pain regardless of her age, some less some more.

Actually, if you still would use common sense, you would realize, that the pain doesn't concern just hymen. You would realise, that little 9 years old kids vagina is so small, that any adults' dick would basically rip her places apart. And that would be much more serious, than just breaking her cherry.
In the other hand, mohammads dick should be VERY small, if it would fit in 9 years old little hole.
Have you ever been with a woman or even seen anything women have?
ANd in the other hand, it is very sad that a little kid bears another little kid.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

Also, it is well known in Islam that a person cannot engage in sexual intercourse with his wife if it causes her physical or phscological harm, regardless of her age.

And how many moslim men REALLY abide this? Still, pedophilia is pedophilia, EVEN if some old dusty tome says otherwise.

Basically, your inability to make difference between 9 years old and 18 years old only tells, that you view women as breeding machines, that are only for fucking and having children. Basically, it is a view that many religious fanatic have, despise WHAT religion they follow.

[narutobadsha]

Originally Posted by Lokki

Actually if you have ever learned something about biology, you would know that just because some 9 years old kid starts to bleed, it doesn't mean she is an adult yet. The first time young girl starts to have periods, she is only BEGINNING her growth to adulthood. That doesn't mean she is even near for being an adult woman. There is BIG difference between a 9 years old virgin, and an adult (let's say even 16 years old) virgin.
SO basically, i'm talking about concrete biology, when you refer to an old book. SO only one of us is committing emotional fallacy, and it ain't me.

I note that you have nothing to say about the picture I posted above in which a nine years old girl gave birth to a baby girl. So would you like to explain her situation? Yeh, 16 years old is an adult out of blue.

Originally Posted by Lokki

Becouse i know, that in those days it was quite normal to have VERY young wives. However, i don't have to approve that.

maybe, but that doesn't explain your hypocrisy. Historical facts are taken from Islamic history which tells us about her exact age etc but rest is left since they disapprove you. The person who got married narrated herself that she didn't have a problem but amazingly everyone else have problems.

Originally Posted by Lokki

Actually, if you still would use common sense, you would realize, that the pain doesn't concern just hymen. You would realise, that little 9 years old kids vagina is so small, that any adults' dick would basically rip her places apart. And that would be much more serious, than just breaking her cherry.
In the other hand, mohammads dick should be VERY small, if it would fit in 9 years old little hole.
Have you ever been with a woman or even seen anything women have?
ANd in the other hand, it is very sad that a little kid bears another little kid.

Why are you inserting straw man here? When did I say that pain only concerns hymen? You have no proof to support your claim that every man's male part would fit perfectly in every grown up female's female part. You're simply assuming that since they are older, they are grown up and so is their body; thus, it will fit in, which isn't case for all women. Apparently, a nine years old girl not only had sex but gave birth to a baby and her husband was 27 years old at that time.

Originally Posted by Lokki

And how many moslim men REALLY abide this? Still, pedophilia is pedophilia, EVEN if some old dusty tome says otherwise.

Go read the definition of pedophilia again. 1) The word itself was introduced in 1902, if i am not wrong. 2) It says an adult egaging in sexual actvities with a child not an adult.

How come an adult male engaging in sexual actvities with 13 years old female in some countries isn't pedophilia? I noted that you failed to address this point and explain your secular countries' laws. Is it that a 13 years old female suddenly becomes a grown up adult?

Originally Posted by Lokki

Basically, your inability to make difference between 9 years old and 18 years old only tells, that you view women as breeding machines, that are only for fucking and having children. Basically, it is a view that many religious fanatic have, despise WHAT religion they follow.

Inserting straw man again and your ignorant interpretations. Did I ever say that we should marry young women? If you have studied some basics of Islam on the topic of marriage, you wouldn't have made these gross mistakes. Allow me to educate you:
1) There are strict conditions on when a person can marry young female
2) The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said that marry the one who is more religiously comitted
3) He (peace be upon him) further said to the parents of the female that if a man with good character and religious commitment comes to you for your daughter, then marry her off to him.
4) Regarding sexual intercourse, I already stated this above
5) The whole purpose of marriage is to support each other to come closer to Allah Ta'ala and enjoy things togther i.e. having children, sharing the compassion and love for each other etc
6) The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said that the best among you (men) is the one who is good to his wife and his family.

I don't see how this applies that I see women as breeding machines.

Do not forget to explain 13 years old allowed to engage in sexual activties with an adult male, let's say 30 years old and 9 years old girl giving birth to a baby.

[krozar]

Originally Posted by Shaykh Badsha

This is also nine years old

If she was a normal woman, why do you think the story it made it on a major paper?

[narutobadsha]

^please do not address me by shaykh since i'm only a layman. I guess, you may not know the definition of layman in Islam but please don't address me again by shaykh. He was implying that 9 years old don't seem an adult women; however, this isn't the case for all women because 9 years can be like grown up adult and that is my point here. It isn't easy to draw a line between "normal" woman because everyone's growth rate depends upon the culture and weather they grow up in.

[Rafcio]

1. It is first necessary to show that a 9 year old is mature enough for copulation or not, before the case of a 13 year old becomes significant, not the other way around. Only if a 9 year old is not mature enough, does the 13 years of age become a significant question, which means it defeats your argument the moment it becomes a valid question.

2. Just because some country has it legal for a 13 year old to have sex doesn't mean that anyone here agrees with such position, or that such sex is medically proven to be safe (physically and mentally). Just because people may disapprove Muhammad's actions, doesn't mean that they can't also disprove the decisions of the countries you mention. Both can be unacceptable behaviour.

3. Your 9 year old pregnant article proves nothing.
Lina Medina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As evidenced here, a 5 year old may potentially give birth.
This is an easy way to demonstrate that just because a nine year old is capable of having a child, doesn't mean it's an acceptable thing for having sex with her.

4. You're committing the False Continuum fallacy. Just because the lines of mental and physical maturity are blurred, doesn't mean that they do not exist. It is morally (at least in most civilized countries) accepted, and medically shown that a nine year old should not copulate with a man due to physical and mental issues that such copulation causes. By your logic you could just as easily argue that it is acceptable for Lina Medina to have sex at age four, because she can get pregnant.


You are capable of making such invalid arguments, because you disregard the fact that a 5 year old or a 9 year old is physically and especially psychologically unready for copulation, clearly in case of an adult, and even more so by a person of authority, such as an adult husband and a cult leader. Her noncritical accounts if true, could have easily resulted from the outside pressure of the religion in making and the Stockholm Syndrome caused by the abuse.
Physical and psychological harm are proven to occur in such case, and the only reason you're ignoring facts is due to your acceptance and defence of primitive and outdated mythical texts about magical events.
It is one thing to spout magical nonsense on the forums, but another to defend child rape.

[Majin]

Narrated 'Aisha:

I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
-http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/073.sbt.html#008.073.151

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.
-http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/008.smt.html#008.3311

'A'isha reported that she used to play with dolls in the presence of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and when her playmates came to her they left (the house) because they felt shy of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), whereas Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent them to her.
-http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/031.smt.html#031.5981

She didn't even enter puberty when she was 9 years old according to Islam.

Show me a hadith or quranic verse saying she was past or entered puberty at that age.

[Apoo]

lol?? Yeah, I have a problem with an adult male having sex with a 9 year old girl. I have big problem. That's called pedophilia.

[Lokki]

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

I note that you have nothing to say about the picture I posted above in which a nine years old girl gave birth to a baby girl.

As rafcio said, even 5 years old is able to bear a child. Basically, with your logic, even 5 years old is a WOMAN and able to carry a baby. And WHY they did make such a big fuzz about the 9 years having a baby. But having a baby doesn't mean, that you are an adult or even having a baby at that age is somehow healthy. Even many european pagans did know, how many summers/winters should be awaited, before woman was a woman.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

maybe, but that doesn't explain your hypocrisy. Historical facts are taken from Islamic history which tells us about her exact age etc but rest is left since they disapprove you. The person who got married narrated herself that she didn't have a problem but amazingly everyone else have problems.

Hypocrisy? I'm talking about a real life and real women. You only refer to an book. SO who is hypocritical? It ain't me, for to be sure.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

Why are you inserting straw man here? When did I say that pain only concerns hymen? You have no proof to support your claim that every man's male part would fit perfectly in every grown up female's female part.

In Africa, there was a little baby girl, lesser than 1 year old, who was rapes. Some idiot spread rumor, that when having sex with a virgin, you can cure yourself from HIV. The little babies Vagina was totally ripped, that they needed surgeon to stitch her up. a 9 years old little girl is little bigger, but comparing that girl to a bigger MAN, you can guess what damage might happen. Even If the damage might not be permanent, or even that severe (physically), the sex itself isn't so enjoyable...for from the point of view of the girl.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

How come an adult male engaging in sexual actvities with 13 years old female in some countries isn't pedophilia? I noted that you failed to address this point and explain your secular countries' laws. Is it that a 13 years old female suddenly becomes a grown up adult?

In most civiliced countries, even 13 years old is a child and is a jailbait. SO no, it is NOT approvable.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

Inserting straw man again and your ignorant interpretations. Did I ever say that we should marry young women? If you have studied some basics of Islam on the topic of marriage, you wouldn't have made these gross mistakes.

Because i give a damn about your religion. Real life is much more interesting, than an imaginary friend named Allah. Even without gods, i've been able to see the value of humanlife. And this i've learned from REAL life, not because some god says me to do so.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

I don't see how this applies that I see women as breeding machines.

Actually it does. You think, that when female is able to bear children, she is an adult.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

Do not forget to explain 13 years old allowed to engage in sexual activties with an adult male, let's say 30 years old and 9 years old girl giving birth to a baby.

As i said before, 9 years old CAN have children. AS can even younger. In your view, even 5 years old is an adult...because she can have children. Talking about hypocrisy. And for that 13 years old...well, also in most countries even that age is illegal.

Oh, byt the way, doesn't women have their right to build a future of their own? Even without MEN telling them what to do.

And basically, you are able to get away everything JUST because you are "a prophet" .