Vandals desecrate Muslim graves in northern France

[Majin]

Originally Posted by Dendra

Majin, you have no idea what jews are doing to muslims. You really need to research both sides. You can't be bias agasint one religion because you don't like them. The least you need to do is see the whole picture. They don't kill jews because of their evil. They kill to a) defend and b) fight for their country and people. By the way, I get the impression that you feel that muslims aren't suppose to fight for their rights and freedom. This isn't fair. You know...like if Christians invaded (thinking ..) umm just random Hindu land, they both fight for their rights. So how come if muslims are killed they can't do anything? And your going to say "Oh the prophet said this..and that" and "their methods are cruel". BUT you have no idea what is happening to them...seriously i would post pics up here but they are WAY to gory.

Number 2- I don't get the full story, but invading somebodys private property is low. THEIR DEAD. They can't do anything about it. Some people are so ignorant. Not all of France, just some people...

I don't think you understood at all, which is amazing since it requires little effort.

I criticize Islam, many Muslims on this board take it to mean i hate Muslims, in fact one of them said that criticizing Islam to him IS hating Muslims.

If this is true, then all Muslims hate Christians and Jews according to that logic, because Muslims consider every other religion wrong a well.

As to what Jews have done to Muslims, don't gimme that bullshit 'Muslims have only ever done the right thing' line.

Both Jews, Muslims and Christians have done shit to each other, no group is innocent.

If you want to get a debate about Muhammad, i don't mind, i have the evidence with me, Muhammad pissed off the Quraish in Mecca by calling their Gods and forefathers evil, and the Muslims around him started insulting the Quraish, the Quraish elder's tried to reason with him (even going so far as to offer him money and positions of power) so he would stop.

He didn't, people on both sides got angry, Muslims killed Quraish, Quraish killed Muslims.

Finally Muhammad was expelled from Mecca, he started raiding caravans killing, taking prisoner's and looting, he especially wanted to raid the Quraish.

Finally he planned an ambush on a Quraish caravan, the Quraish went to defend it, this is the Battle of Badr, from then on war.

[narutobadsha]

I think this should be sufficient to expose you.

Originally Posted by Majin

Kind of like how many arabs in the middle-east justify killing Jews because the Jews themselves are evil.

Originally Posted by Majin

Why would i talk about arab deaths all over the world in a thread about an incident about a graveyard?

So folks notice how Majin has shot his own foot! Also, many of you have noticed and will notice that Majin will be the first person who will go off topic in an anti Islamic threads. The topic will be something else but he will start quoting ahadith and verses.

Here is an example of it, found in this thread!

Originally Posted by Majin

Actually i don't like Islam for the following reasons.

9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

Narrated 'Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
-http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/084.sbt.html#009.084.057

If Majin as you say that this thread is about graveyard what hating or liking Muslims have anything do with it. O wait, you will start ranting about how you only responded to what someone else said.

Originally Posted by majin

Quraish elder's tried to reason with him (even going so far as to offer him money and positions of power) so he would stop. He didn't, people on both sides got angry, Muslims killed Quraish, Quraish killed Muslims.

Finally Muhammad was expelled from Mecca, he started raiding caravans killing, taking prisoner's and looting, he especially wanted to raid the Quraish.

Finally he planned an ambush on a Quraish caravan, the Quraish went to defend it, this is the Battle of Badr, from then on war.

What does this have to do with the thread? Your argument that you are only responding to what the person said cannot work here because he is talking about current Muslims not early Muslims.

I have wrote a long article on the character of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and unlike Majin I quoted the whole story which explains the incident of Quyrash offering money to Prophet (Peace be upon him). Here is the link: What did Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) desire?

[Keerua]

Originally Posted by Majin

Pretty much what your doing.

Is criticizing of Islam the same as racial discrimination against Muslims?

Is criticizing say, Christianity, tantamount to racial discrimination against Christians?

maybe not to you, but Tom, Jim, Chin, Ahmad, Rishu and Ron can't tell the difference (or whatever the average person is called)

[Majin]

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

I think this should be sufficient to expose you.

So folks notice how Majin has shot his own foot! Also, many of you have noticed and will notice that Majin will be the first person who will go off topic in an anti Islamic threads. The topic will be something else but he will start quoting ahadith and verses.

Here is an example of it, found in this thread!

Try and quote my entire post please.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

@Majin

You talk about Arab killing but it is funny how you do not say anything about the mass murder of innocent Muslims all over the world. my friend, you exposed your hypocrite nature again. How come I do not see your buddy sadat? Why people would not call you Islamic hater when you only discuss something when it is against Islam.

Someone asked me why i talk about only Islam in Islam threads or the affects Islam has had on Muslims in Islamic threads, and not about the atrocities some have done to Muslims say by Christians etc.

So i told them that obviously in a thread about this graveyard, i wouldn't be talking about other events in the world, but they asked me so i told them my views.

edit:err weren't you the one i was replying too here.

You basically asked 'why dont you talk about mass murder of innocent Muslims', i told you i usually don't because a thread doesn't specifically ask it, but since you asked, i did tell you.

Why would you ask me my views if you don't want me to give it?

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

If Majin as you say that this thread is about graveyard what hating or liking Muslims have anything do with it. O wait, you will start ranting about how you only responded to what someone else said.

What does this have to do with the thread? Your argument that you are only responding to what the person said cannot work here because he is talking about current Muslims not early Muslims.

Try posting what i was replying too

Originally Posted by haohmaru

quote by the oh so narrow minded brainwashed Majin: People that support Islam are just Idiots. Before reading those idiotic comments at thread I still had a little respect for you. Sure you don't Islam, no problem. Fine with me. But insulting every like that in Cartoon reprint thread showed your true face.

I outlined some of my reasons why i dislike Islam to this person, one of them is the advocacy of killing ex-Muslims.

Originally Posted by haohmaru

I have wrote a long article on the character of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and unlike Majin I quoted the whole story which explains the incident of Quyrash offering money to Prophet (Peace be upon him). Here is the link: What did Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) desire?

Err your article makes alot of error's, i'll outline them

It is very interesting to note that Christians, who say that they believe in all the Prophets (AS) of God and respect them, not only mock and through garbage at the character of Prophet (SAW) but they also do the same to the Prophets (AS) mentioned in their own bible. We read Genesis chapter 19 verses 30-40: these verses accuse Prophet Lot (AS) of committing incest with his two daughters, who later gave birth to two children from their father. We read 2nd Samuel chapter 11 verses 2:27: these verses, the so called “beautiful word of God”, accuse Prophet David (AS) of committing adultery with another man's woman, conceiving her of his child, sending her husband to death and marrying her. We read 1st King chapter 11 verses 1-13: these verses the “beautiful word of God” utter a bogus lie that Prophet Solomon (AS) worshiped idols when he turned old.

Here the article is saying Christians mocked past prophets because they detail what they believe to be historical fact about them (what happened to them) which in today's view isn't good.

But umm this isn't mockery, this is just what the writer's of Christians considered to be historical fact.

Let me give you an example: The Hadith states that Muhammad had sex with a 9-year old girl Aisha, today we consider this an act of pedophilia, but this doesn't mean past Muslims were making a mockery of Muhammad, to them it was historical fact.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

I have wrote a long article on the character of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and unlike Majin I quoted the whole story which explains the incident of Quyrash offering money to Prophet (Peace be upon him). Here is the link: What did Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) desire?

..Ok this point about the offering of money, you do realize the article in fact agree's with me

So they all went to ‘Utba and told him their unanimous wish. He agreed with them and came to Prophet (SAW). ‘Utba asked: ‘O Muhammad (SAW), tell me, are you better than Abdullah (Prophet’s (SAW) father)?’ Prophet (SAW) did not answer. He asked the second question: ‘Are you better than your grandfather, Abdul Mutlib?’ Prophet (SAW) remained silent again. He started saying, ‘if you think your grandfather was better than you, then you know he worshiped the same idols the ones we worship and you always criticize/condemn them. If you think you are better than them (father and grandfather) then talk to us, we will listen to you. I swear by God none like you has born who has hurt his own people. You have broken our jama’t. You have replaced our unity with disunity. You have criticized and condemned our religion. You have defamed us in the whole Arab. Everyone is saying that there is a magician in Quraysh. There is a soothsayer in Quraysh. Now, there is only one thing left and that is we start quarrelling and pull swords on each other; do you want us to destroy each other by fighting among ourselves. Listen! If you want money then all of us will gather so much money that no one will be compared to you among Arabs. If you wish for women, so whoever’s (from among us) daughter you like tell us, we’ll marry you off to not only one but tens (many) like her.’ He took a breath after saying all this and Rasoul of Allah (SAW) asked, ‘Are you done?’ He said, ‘Yes’! Prophet (SAW) said ‘now listen to me’! Then, Prophet (SAW) recited Bismillah (In the name of Allah) and recited till ‘I warn you of a thunderbolt like the thunderbolt (which fell of old upon the tribes) of Aad and Thamud;’ [13 verses of this Surah (Chapter) – interpretation of the meaning]. After listening this much he said stop this, stop this. He asked ‘do you not have anything else [to say] except this?’ Prophet (SAW) said ‘NO’! So he left.

A throng of Quraysh was waiting for him. They asked him, how did it go? He replied, I told him everything that all of you together could have said. They asked, so did he say anything? He replied, yes he said something but by God I did not understand anything except that he warns us of heavenly ‘azab (dreadful torment) that came to Thamood and ‘Ad. They said you Arab person did not understand what he said in Arabic. He replied I am speaking the truth; I did not understand anything except that he warns us of ‘azab.

Your article in fact agree's with what i've been saying.

Muhammad started insulting and condemning their religious beliefs, forefathers and way of life (calling them evil), this created great conflict between the Quraish and the Muslims.

The Quraish tried to tell him to stop, as the conflict was escalating, the elder's offered him money or positions of power just so he would stop insulting them.

He didn't stop, and in fact threatened them with Godly torment (and in Al-Tabari he also threatens to slaughter them).

This article does not show Muhammad in a good light Narutobadsha, even though ironically it is trying to defend Muhammad and more ironically your post said your trying to show Muhammads character.

[Dendra]

Majin. This thread is about the violation of property. Not about finding quotes of a-hadith on google which a) you don't understand b) aren't reading in the right context and c) are not even translated properly; and posting them on here to attack Islams prophet. I don't think its about religion as you put it. Its the people; it doesn't matter what what their colour or religion is. I'm not going to argue about Muhammad because 1- You know nothing about this religion 2- You only have negative things to say and 3- It seems thats the only thing you can battle about.

Also you said all three religions do shit, yet you only attack Islam. Your a very bias person who isn't looking at both sides. You need to do research. Also stop saying "Muhammad ordered this and that", all leaders try to lead their people into doing the right religion. If you don't know that, then you aren't as bright as you look. Second of all Majin, you said "Don't give me that shit that muslims do the right thing". Well, as we're speaking in mass-murders and such. Find me one story of a muslim torturing a Jew or a soldier. When a muslim kills, which they are allowed seeing its a war. They kill. They don't torture, or rape. Thats AGAINST our religion. Jews on the other hand do that and more. So again, research the whole religion, find real information on war then come on and debate. Your going on anti-muslim websites and finding your info which isn't fair. Al-Jazeera shows you the real story and all the true clips, not like CNN.

[Syfer Van Hyden]

Originally Posted by Majin

Then you shouldn't think that people who think Islam is wrong hates Muslims.

We have a word for your behaviour, hypocrisy

Try using a better choice of words (and word conjugation) next time (my advice), it's HYPOCRITICAL, not hypocrisy. In addition to that, u also dont seem to know wat it means since it doesnt even apply to this matter nor is it my behavior. I'll tell u wat's ur mindset; narrow-mindedness (ignorance...in case u needed another synonym to better understand the word and without trying to google it to check whether or not the word is correct) and disrespect.


And u shouldn't point out that Islam is a God awful terrible religion that wants to destroy mankind just because u think so.

[Majin]

Originally Posted by Dendra

Also you said all three religions do shit, yet you only attack Islam.

Actually in total, ive debated more about Christianities flaws them Islam.

If you do a search you'll find that, i only focus on Islam right now because it is the religion i am researching.

Originally Posted by Dendra

Find me one story of a muslim torturing a Jew or a soldier. When a muslim kills, which they are allowed seeing its a war. They kill. They don't torture, or rape. Thats AGAINST our religion. Jews on the other hand do that and more. So again, research the whole religion, find real information on war then come on and debate. Your going on anti-muslim websites and finding your info which isn't fair. Al-Jazeera shows you the real story and all the true clips, not like CNN.

I don't think its relevant whether some Muslims now torture and rape (and err btw it is well known many Muslim extremists torture people) as that does not necessarily reflect Islam.

But i think it is relevant if Muhammad and his Muslims tortured or raped, don't you think?

Rape of female slaves by Muhammad's war band
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

That while he was sitting with the Prophet a man from the Ansar came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get slave girls from the war captives and we love property; what do you think about coitus interruptus?" Allah's Apostle said, "Do you do that? It is better for you not to do it, for there is no soul which Allah has ordained to come into existence but will be created."
-http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/077.sbt.html#008.077.600

Torture by Muhammad
Kinana al-Rabi, who had the custody of the treasure of Banu Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says "was brought"), to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, "Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?" He said "Yes". The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr Al-Awwam, "Torture him until you extract what he has." So he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud."
-Ibn Ishaq (The Life of The Prophet)

Or you can go to the Quran.

5:33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom

And Allah seems to enjoy torturing disbelievers.

22:19 These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads,
22:20 Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted;
22:21 And for them are hooked rods of iron.
22:22 Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.

Originally Posted by Pr0fessional_Wesker

And u shouldn't point out that Islam is a God awful terrible religion that wants to destroy mankind just because u think so.

Islam doesn't want to destroy mankind, don't be absurd, it does advocate killing ex-Muslims, endorse beating of wives, oppressively rule over Christians and Jews and kill polytheists.

It also tends to say disbelievers are evil and will burn in hell forever.

These thing's i consider 'disrespectful'.

[Dendra]

Again Majin. You can post all ahadith in the world. But if your not reading them in the proper context, your going to see it as negative. Muhammad never "raped" anyone.

[Majin]

Originally Posted by Dendra

Again Majin. You can post all ahadith in the world. But if your not reading them in the proper context, your going to see it as negative. Muhammad never "raped" anyone.

Which i didn't say.

Rape of female slaves by Muhammad's war band

Might want to brush up on your reading skills before you tell people they need to read a 'context'.

[Dendra]

Originally Posted by Majin

Which i didn't say.

Rape of female slaves by Muhammad's war band

Might want to brush up on your reading skills before you tell people they need to read a 'context'.

Oops, not a conext, in the right context is what I meant. Muhammads "band" never did that. You didn't say what? It doesn't look like your researching if you only see the negative side.

[krozar]

I can't keep quiet anymore! Your posts are a tragedy to all conventions of written civility!

Originally Posted by Pr0fessional_Wesker

Try using a better choice of words (and word conjugation) next time (my advice), it's HYPOCRITICAL, not hypocrisy. In addition to that, u also dont seem to know wat it means since it doesn't even apply to this matter nor is it my behavior. I'll tell u wat's ur mindset; narrow-mindedness (ignorance...in case u needed another synonym to better understand the word and without trying to google it to check whether or not the word is correct) and disrespect.


And u shouldn't point out that Islam is a God awful terrible religion that wants to destroy mankind just because u think so.

Quote from Answers.com:

hypocrisy

(hĭ-pŏk'rĭ-sē)

n., pl. -sies.

1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.

[Middle English ipocrisie, from Old French, from Late Latin hypocrisis, play-acting, pretense, from Greek hupokrisis, from hupokrīnesthai, to play a part, pretend : hupo-, hypo- + krīnesthai, to explain, middle voice of krīnein, to decide, judge.]



hypocrisy

noun

1. A show or expression of feelings or beliefs one does not actually hold or possess: pharisaism, phoniness, sanctimoniousness, sanctimony, tartuffery, two-facedness. Seehonest/dishonest.

Stop, just fucking stop it!

Originally Posted by Pr0fessional_Wesker

More like an ignorant fool who just relies on googling ahadith and blindly posting them without knowing what on earth it's talking about, let's not forget the poor translations of those hadiths. I completely agree with wat u said.

I have said this before: if this is the case, then Islamic and linguistic scholars should translate it "properly." Don't give me shit that English isn't capable. Even if it takes translator notes, anything can be translated from any other terrestrial language. The English Qu'ran is an ambassador of Islam to much of the world. It's irresponsible to not translate it properly. The only other issue would be lack of cultural context. But that's not a deficiency in the English language.

Start backing your claims that it's all out of context. This is a debate forum.

Originally Posted by Dendra

Again Majin. You can post all ahadith in the world. But if your not reading them in the proper context, your going to see it as negative. Muhammad never "raped" anyone.

Marrying Aisha is rape in my book. 6 years old! They "co-habitated" when she was 9. This is not a mere cultural misunderstanding. She was...NINE.

But it's okay because he's the "prophet." It's obviously not rape because she was a mature 6yr/old who obviously made a very informed decision before he gave her the choice to marry him.

[Dendra]

^Please don't try to argue in something you know NOTHING about. He did not sleep with her at a young age, nor did he marry her. Get the point. You-are-not-reading-it-properly. Did you do your research? Or are you merely reading of of Majins points? When you say "its alright because hes the prophet", it shows how a)ignorant you are as a person and b)how un-informed (is that a word o.o?) you are about this topic. The quaran has all the proof on the prophets life, and has not been changed since it was made. That is a fact. Also, simply putting a-hadith (copying and pasting things) because they sound like it backs up your argument, is stupid. You have to know what your reading. Again, in all Islamic-related threads, Majin brings up the prophet and starts putting false info on him. Stick to the topic, if the only argument against Muhammad that you can find is "he raped and married a 9 year old", and "condened rape against women", then you seriously don't know how to debate. Plus, nobody knows the root of the religion unless you follow it, so why are you arguing? Its okay that you don't agree and your against it, so why do you continue on talking about it. We get it; you don't like the religion, and your arguements are naive.

[Majin]

Originally Posted by Dendra

^Please don't try to argue in something you know NOTHING about. He did not sleep with her at a young age, nor did he marry her. Get the point.

Narrated Hisham's father:

Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
-http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.236

Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
-http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.064

Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'
-http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.065

Narrated 'Ursa:

The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
-http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.088

Originally Posted by Dendra

The quaran has all the proof on the prophets life, and has not been changed since it was made.

You can of course show me the very first quran ever made so we can confirm that nothing has changed?

Originally Posted by Dendra

That is a fact. Also, simply putting a-hadith (copying and pasting things) because they sound like it backs up your argument, is stupid.

Posting evidence is stupid?