Will Europe eventually have to embrace sharia law?

[XandorXerxes]

I'm curious where all the anti-women parts of Islamic law actually stem from. From what I've been taught Muhammad himself treated his wife as an equal, and from what I've read and searched for there aren't any significant passages in the Qu'ran putting women under men. The only anti-homosexual passages I read were the usual passages on Lot. I guess that's enough for some people though.

[Majin]

Originally Posted by XandorXerxes

I'm curious where all the anti-women parts of Islamic law actually stem from. From what I've been taught Muhammad himself treated his wife as an equal, and from what I've read and searched for there aren't any significant passages in the Qu'ran putting women under men. The only anti-homosexual passages I read were the usual passages on Lot. I guess that's enough for some people though.

4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and beat them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

Polygamy

On 2:282 the justification that 2 women equal 1 man as witness

Tafsir Ibn Kathir
Allah requires that two women take the place of one man as witness, because of the woman's shortcomings, as the Prophet described. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said,
(O women! Give away charity and ask for forgiveness, for I saw that you comprise the majority of the people of the Fire.)
One eloquent woman said, "O Messenger of Allah! Why do we comprise the majority of the people of the Fire'' He said,
(You curse a lot and you do not appreciate your mate. I have never seen those who have shortcoming in mind and religion controlling those who have sound minds, other than you.) She said, "O Messenger of Allah! What is this shortcoming in mind and religion'' He said,
(As for the shortcoming in her mind, the testimony of two women equals the testimony of one man, and this is the shortcoming in the mind. As for the shortcoming in the religion, woman remains for nights at a time when she does not pray and breaks the fast in Ramadan)

USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts

Child marriages are permissable

slavery of women from warfare is permissable (and raping them).

And to homosexuality, in the hadith, the penalty is execution.

[narutobadsha]

Originally Posted by Majin

4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and beat them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

this has been debunked thousands of times before

Originally Posted by Majin

Polygamy

You may want to enlighten us how does this prove your point?

Originally Posted by Majin

On 2:282 the justification that 2 women equal 1 man as witness

this only exposes your academic dishonesty. You may want to tell us that in some cases only women's testimony works!

Originally Posted by Majin

Child marriages are permissable

this has only to do with drawing the marriage contract, nothing less and nothing more. Also, there are conditions on when this can be done. You may want to read some articles by Imam Abou Hanifa and Imam Shafi' (May Allah be pleased with them) on this topic.

Originally Posted by Majin

slavery of women from warfare is permissable (and raping them).

slavery still exists in many forms, even in west, so don't try to pull a fast one. There is not single shred of evidence which says that they can be rapped.

For the benefits of readers, in Islam slavery refers to prisoners of war. Every other form of slavery has been abolished in Islam unlike in modern era and ancient times.

Originally Posted by Majin

And to homosexuality, in the hadith, the penalty is execution.

yeh, so what? what does this has to do with the topic of proving that Islam is against the women? Homosexuality refers to both males and females, unless your definition is different.

[Majin]

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

this has been debunked thousands of times before

What has been debunked?
that in the Quran physical punishment is a valid method of discipline of your wife, for simply fear of their conduct?

4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and beat them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

You may want to enlighten us how does this prove your point?

Polygamy is bad for women.
History shows us this.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

this only exposes your academic dishonesty. You may want to tell us that in some cases only women's testimony works!

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a women equal to half that of a man?" The women said "yes". He said "This is because of the deficiency of the women's mind."
-Sahih al-Bukhari: volume 3, book 48, number 826

It's not good for women when Muslims are indoctrinated to believe their minds is somehow deficient.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

this has only to do with drawing the marriage contract, nothing less and nothing more. Also, there are conditions on when this can be done. You may want to read some articles by Imam Abou Hanifa and Imam Shafi' (May Allah be pleased with them) on this topic.

child marriages is bad, muhammad marrying Aisha when she was 6 and having sex with her at 9 sets a bad precedant, many Muslims in the middle-east still do this to kids because of Muhammads example.

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

slavery still exists in many forms, even in west, so don't try to pull a fast one. There is not single shred of evidence which says that they can be rapped.

For the benefits of readers, in Islam slavery refers to prisoners of war. Every other form of slavery has been abolished in Islam unlike in modern era and ancient times.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir
Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri said, "We captured some women from the area of Awtas who were already married, and we disliked having sexual relations with them because they already had husbands. So, we asked the Prophet about this matter, and this Ayah was revealed,
(Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess). Consequently, we had sexual relations with these women.'' This is the wording collected by At-Tirmidhi An-Nasa'i, Ibn Jarir and Muslim in his Sahih. Allah's statement,


Even early Muslims had the decency to not rape MARRIED female captives, but Muhammad reveals a verse that suddenly allows them.

Great...

Originally Posted by narutobadsha

yeh, so what? what does this has to do with the topic of proving that Islam is against the women? Homosexuality refers to both males and females, unless your definition is different.

The person i quoted is asking Islam's view of homosexuality, in Islam, the penalty for homosexualty is execution.

[Soph_dre]

I do not see Europe embracing Shiaria law. Liberty and equality have been crucial to the secular western indentity as was many wars have been fought throughout history over these ideologies. To this day, many acclaimed political scientist theorize that democracy and Shiaria Law cannot be integrated.

[b@st@rd]

Originally Posted by Apoo

In the netherlands I think you already get jailed for publicly badmouthing islam.

I think not, luckily.

[GaaranGaara]

Originally Posted by Apoo

Democracy is the rule of the people, and if the majority of the people are muslim, then they get to make the laws.If population trends are correct, then certain parts of Europe will have no choice but to democratically embrace sharia law in the future. This means that a society were non-muslims, homosexuals, and preety much anyone else will be prejudiced against. My question here is, do you think it will come to this point? If so, how soon?

I think this would be highly unlikely. Though it raises a lot of questions and conversations in Europe.

So where should we draw the line? And how much should people bend in order for everyone to get along? Here in Finland the majority of people are Christians and a small portion of our population are Muslims. Already the schools are planning to change our Christmas parties so that nobody would get their feelings hurt. This is just an example what is happening here.

I'd say if someone doesn't want to join the Christmas celebrations they should take a day off. I don't see a logical reason for changing our ways. I mean it's not like people are forced to be a participate.

In my view people here are already making too many compromises.

[Lokki]

It is a quite a paradox. Democracy IS democratic and Islam is not. In Finland, we already have An Islamic party, that already tried to get in to the government. And one of their objective, is to get the sharia law.
So basically, how we can vote something, that is NOT democratic, with democratic way. This is practically the same thing, if we would vote the Spanish inquisition back to work.

[zack_strife]

basically if they do introduce Sahria Law they will be using the system to destroy itself.
My friend from school comes from Finland and he was saying that there are probably only about 20,000 muslims in Finland so i don't see that law being passed anytime soon LOL.

I can honestly say that here in the UK we will never have Sharia Law past and if it were even attempted it would send the entire country into chaos as most british people don't like seeing their ways and traditions changed to suit others. An example of this in my school is that we are not allowed to have any christmas decorations up incase it proves offensive to others, even though we only had 3 non-christians out of 1,500. There were even rumors that we couldn't call it christmas anymore but X-mas or something similar to the festival of lights, because there were some other religions (can't remember who) that was saying that it was discrimating against because it had christ in it. It's a christian holiday and there were complaints because they were being discriminated against.

[Lokki]

Originally Posted by zack_strife

My friend from school comes from Finland and he was saying that there are probably only about 20,000 Muslims in Finland so i don't see that law being passed anytime soon LOL.

Most ironical is, that almost all members in the Islamic party are ethnic Finnish. None Immigrant Muslims have not even voted this whole party.

[zshortysmall]

Most of these countries have separation of church and state.
Plus, if by your logic majority religion controls laws, than explain why I haven't been forcefully converted or killed for being Jewish.

[Lokki]

Not all of them Unfortunately, we still have church messing in our government. And if you'd live in Sweden, you still would be in danger. What I've heard/read, Jews in there are threatened with violence and other stuff by Muslims. Now, some of the Swedish Jews are moving out to somewhere else, because living in over tolerant Sweden is too dangerous to them.

[Lokki]

Islamic sharia courts in Britain are now 'legally binding' | Mail Online

Islamic sharia law courts in Britain are exploiting a little-known legal clause to make their verdicts officially binding under UK law in cases including divorce, financial disputes and even domestic violence.

A new network of courts in five major cities is hearing cases where Muslims involved agree to be bound by traditional Sharia law, and under the 1996 Arbitration Act the court's decisions can then be enforced by the county courts or the High Court.

Officials behind the new system claim to have dealt with more than 100 cases since last summer, including six involving domestic violence which is a criminal rather than civil offence, and said they hoped to take over growing numbers of 'smaller' criminal cases in future.

The revelations sparked uproar yesterday, with warnings that the fundamental principle of equal treatment for all - the bedrock of British justice - was being gravely undermined.

Way to go, great britain. \o/

[zack_strife]

the british governments are retarded bastards but each of those citys have a very high muslim population e.g Bradford has around 80% muslim population. It's going to come back and bite them in the ass but thank f*** i don't live in Britain or any of those cities

[Lokki]

However, here are couple other news concerning this:
What can sharia courts do in britain?
Religious courts already in use

[sadated_peon]

I am really torn on this issue.

First I would have to say that if you use these courts then you should be denied British citizenship, if you are seeking it.

I believe you should be denied because a person using Sharia law instead of British law doesn't want to assimilate into British culture, they don't want to be a part of UK, they want their own law and own community.

But I don't think we should stop the courts, if two people want to bang out their difference they can do it however they please. I am not going to impose my beliefs on others, as long as what they decided follows the laws of UK.

But I would watch these things like a fucking hawk, and anything that seem like coercion to get people to drop British Legal proceedings for this should be punished.

[Righteous Judgment]

MADNESS talk about setting a great fucking example but I think canada can kinda be blaimed for this. Some area allows jewish religious legal proceedings to be binding and this was probably the step that has made this possible.

[narutobadsha]

hmm...what is "sharia law"? This term supposed to be an Islamic term but why do we only hear it from non-Muslims and Muslims only wonder where the heck this come from.

Westerners' true faces and double standards is indeed worth to note here because forcing democracy and liberalism in Muslim countries is just fine (fighting the "terrorists") and having Jewish law in your system is just fine but wait a minute where did Muslim come from. Let's banish Muslims, these barbaric extremists who only know how to blow themselves up.

Please at least don't humiliate yourself so openly.