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Thread: Contest Section Discussion Thread

  1. #1
    Hunter-nin Insin's Avatar
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    Default Contest Section Discussion Thread

    I here from a reliable birdy that 4thseal is going to be writing up guidelines for our mini competitions. I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts to how we should do things, or suggestions that maybe can help Darius out. He's expressed to me that he wants to make sure that the guidelines are agreeable.

    So far, we've modified our judging to be vote based. Participants get 1 vote, and other people get 2 that they can give to one or two people. Personally, I think that's a very solid system.

    When we had our first mini comp, the Sannin battle lol, we just did 1 vote apiece and it took forever to get to just 3 votes for one person.

    Of course, I think it's also good to have a competition indepedent winning vote total. The number of participants differs each time, so it's good to be flexible there.


    Any other suggestions? Thoughts?
    Last edited by Insin; 30-03-2008 at 01:14 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Writing Contest Critiques/Discussion

    I think 'participant 1 point per vote and other judges 2 points per vote, first getting 7 points is winner' is good method. At the moment we don't have that many peeps active here in lit section to raise max points. So I think it's fair to all.

    In some cases we could use other kind of method too. Depending on the nature of the contest, like eliminator (might be too tricky here) or points to all contestant (max points to the best and least points to weakest).

  3. #3
    skeletons need smokes 4thseal's Avatar
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    Default Contest Section Discussion Thread

    As you all know by now, we have been granted our own section for contests!

    This is very exciting and I'm sure it'll help our lit community grow and prosper. As the section's new, I'm sure there's stuff we all need to hammer out. I've written up general rules, which are located here:

    http://www.narutomania.com/forums/co...les-91981.html

    But, please feel free to give your own suggestions and thought in this thread on how we can shape our new subsection.

    This thread is also meant for general discussions of the Contests Section.

    As for the battle threads, I've made the judging rule be 1 point for participants to use, and 2 for non-participants. I think this will work well for the beginning and keep the battles from going on for too long. Though I'm more than willing to keep working with that rule until a good, consitant rule can be put into place.
    Last edited by 4thseal; 31-03-2008 at 02:52 AM.

  4. #4
    Chaotic Neutral kai0x's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    Holy cow Darius, haha wow you've been busy and I wasn't even gone for long xD. Bravo my friend, I love how everything is organized and not clustered anymore, great job <3




  5. #5
    Hunter-nin Insin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    Yeah! You got this section created after all

    Thanks 4thseal, this is very cool

  6. #6
    skeletons need smokes 4thseal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    Hehe, well Bats really helped here, especially with the encoredgment and reason for doing this. But, you're welcome. Thank you both as well, you and others are really why this happened. We wouldn't be here if it weren't for the awesome group we got going. I really do think that this is the only the beginning of something grand!
    Last edited by 4thseal; 31-03-2008 at 01:35 AM.

  7. #7
    Special Jounin Sasuke's Legacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    I can't believe it happened =).

    We talked about going here once I believe 4th, and you made it happen with some help. Well done mate, well done. This is simply breath taking, our own lil subsection to sit cosily in and fight over who writes better...

    Why is my judging system being kept lol? It was experimental, so I don't think it should stay unless it at least has improvements. I'd really like to thank Ravi though for making his own battle. That was what I was trying to promote with my own battles, but it didn't happen until now.

    This is gonna be great!

    "Brandy, you're a fine girl
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    I'm Sorry...

  8. #8
    skeletons need smokes 4thseal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    ^sl, you've definitly done your part to make this happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke's Legacy View Post
    Why is my judging system being kept lol? It was experimental, so I don't think it should stay unless it at least has improvements.
    ^well, the rules there right now just so we have a constant rule in place. I definitly agree we can improve on it or get a better rule in place, so any suggestion folks? ^^

  9. #9

    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    Hello.

    After a few searches on how other forums do their literature competitions, I've found the following:

    1. Some forums open a new thread with a poll.
    2. Some forums have the public rank their top 3 and award points for each rank (i.e., 1st place = 3 points, 2nd place = 2 points, etc.).

    Some things to consider:

    Voting via polls
    If we do this, it means all votes are weighted equally. There is an option to make the poll public to see who voted for whom. It's quick and easy. It doesn't require someone manually counting the votes. Some people might not want to leave comments, so this is a way for them to let their voice be heard. However, without actually responding to the thread, it's hard to tell whether people are voting seriously or are voting for, say, someone who's username and/or entry title sounds the funniest.

    Voting via the ranking method
    If we do this, it will require some math. It will provide feedback on how we stand in comparison with the other entries. With the splitting of the votes, all we know is that we're "tied" with someone else, but with the ranking method, voters are forced to read a little more critically.

    Voting via 'Dancing with the Stars' method
    In the hit TV show Dancing with the Stars, a panel of professionals and the home audience have equally-weighted votes. To foster more participation in this section, people can serve as judges and feel "important". There's math involved, but I can make a spreadsheet that will take care of the calculations should you all go this route.

    That's it. I'm out.

    Love and peace!

    ~batman555

  10. #10
    brotherhood and freedom Drak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    first of all, i'd like to say thanks to 4th and others for making this contest section. the organization makes the section look more appealing.

    in response to bats' ideas concerning judging:

    Quote Originally Posted by batman555 View Post
    1. Some forums open a new thread with a poll.
    2. Some forums have the public rank their top 3 and award points for each rank (i.e., 1st place = 3 points, 2nd place = 2 points, etc.).
    this reminds me of how the graphics section does their voting with sig of the week. (minus the poll) they make a two threads: one discussion thread - where you can comment on entries and a voting thread - where they show the entries and only the judges can cast their vote response. they also vote via a point/ranking system.

    like bats is suggesting with the ranking, it makes ties more difficult to achieve (but there are times where ranking will still result in ties). i also think this form of voting is more fair and allows people to make possible 'comebacks'. the points also measure the degree of skill besides just favoritism. the calculations aren't that difficult to perform anyway.

    i am unsure what other people will think of the separate threads. perhaps it may appear too cluttered and overwhelming on the page? (seeing that there are multiple contests and battles going on simultaneously)

    with the poll method, while it makes viewing the judging in a quick and organized manner, i do agree how some people may take voting lightly if this is done. (i am afraid of some random n00b coming here and randomly casting careless votes).

    However, without actually responding to the thread, it's hard to tell whether people are voting seriously or are voting for, say, someone who's username and/or entry title sounds the funniest.
    totally agree.


    Voting via 'Dancing with the Stars' method: i am kind of unsure how this will turn out. spreadsheets? if it involves filling out a lot of stuff, i wouldn't bother voting because it may be time consuming x_x.
    __________________________



  11. #11
    skeletons need smokes 4thseal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    Well, I really think Bat's ideas are great and I completely agree with Draks comments on the different types of voting as well. You two make a great team XD.

    I have no problem with a thread for the battle's to be discussed, organized, and then entries to be initially posted, and another thread for voting where the entries are clearly displayed. It actually makes a lot of sense and would make things clearer.

    Out of the options bats came up with, I personally like the "Voting via the ranking method." It would be great if judges had to give a little more thought into their pieces and it'd be cool for participants to receive more feedback and have a better idea of where they stand. And, this still allows for open judging, which would bring attention and encourage participation in the battles.

    The poll option will surely bring in more votes, but I too worry that the votes will be made more lightly without much thought. And, the dancing with the stars method seems to be a bit of the opposite. I guess I worry that finding judges and keeping them to a schedual may be a bit difficult.

    But, this is just my two sense, and we're a community here, so what do the rest of you think?

  12. #12
    Chaotic Neutral kai0x's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    I agree with your points 4th, I personally would want to go with the voting by ranking method. Seems like the most logical and even better than our current system. Everyone judging has to be more detailed and its not a winner take all like it is now.




  13. #13
    Kazekage
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    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    Morning people =p

    Even though I'm quite a newbie in this section I'd like to tell you all my thoughts about the new sub-section ^_^

    Short and simply put, I don't think it's the right time to have created a contest subsection.
    Not that I disagree with your intentions, I think it's the ideal way to create some order and make a nice place for people who want to contest. However I wouldn't say it deserved it's own subsection yet, so far as I've seen the literature section excists out of a large bulk of RP'ers, and a small select group of writers with the occasional visitor who likes to strut some awesome stuff and enjoy the friendlyness (<3).
    Since the audience is extremely limited, I think it might be a wrong thing to divide it any further. I wouldn't want the activity of the section decrease, so I reasoned it would've been better to create a subsection such as this when activity has gone up. (As you may have noticed, this is not really the GFX department...)

    However from a different side of view: Taking in account that it's a solid core, it's cool to make sure they can do their thing.
    This could create a sort of 'Rich Boy's Country Club' image which I think would decrease the attraction of this section to people browsing arround NM.

  14. #14
    how they match your eyes Yachiru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    The section, to be honest, was solely created to free up clutter from the Lit main section - so far as I can tell. Which is actually a really good thing, because half of the threads in the main section at any given time were old contests, which most users would never open since they weren't active anymore. As a new user to this area, and I don't mean to say this condescendingly, it's just safe to assume that you don't understand how the Lit area works.

    Believe it or not, this subsection is a rather good idea, in the short and long run. I know you used to be huge with the SS RP, since I was there, too, at the time, but the Lit area as a whole is way different.


    Can we last through the winter?
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    The only one who remembers
    Taking the wrong step, falling in front of me.
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    I swear to you now, I won't call.




  15. #15

    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    I think Contest section is really good idea and makes main of lit section look cleaner. Before this there were way too many stickied threads because of different competitions going on. And that sorta takes a way the meaning of a stickied thread.

    I have a suggestion. Could we have thread name labelling system here too as there is in gfx section (at least there used to be for different type of pics posted) and in Humor zone. And why? Because it might encourage peeps to open more bravely posts made in lit section and give feedback when they have some idea what they are getting when clicking it open.

    Something like this:
    [P] = poem
    [N] = novel
    [SS] = short story
    [FF] = fanfiction
    ... and maybe others

    Edit: how could I forgot fanfiction

  16. #16

    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    I like the idea of a labeling system. Maybe we can also add [FF] = fanfiction up there? XD

    As far as this subsection goes, I'm all for it. It's more organized, and the activity here with all these contests has gone up a lot since it was created. It served its purpose, and I don't think a large audience activity should necessitate the creation of a subsection. As long as it makes sense organizationally and it facilitates navigation, you know, why not make a new section?


    EDIT: I threw in the 'Dancing with the Stars' method because I wanted an excuse to play with Excel. ><
    Last edited by batman555; 03-04-2008 at 05:37 PM.

  17. #17
    Devious Devotchka nidaba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    Great ideas in here so far. =] I think the ranking method would be my favorite of the ideas for voting. It really does seem like it would make voters spend time reading each entry and evaluating them, on top of giving the participants more information about what people thought about their piece. The poll option might be fun for casual battles, but I just don't think it would give enough feedback or have enough serious votes to work in most situations.

    Martzu- Great idea. =] I like organization, so the idea of everything being labeled like that appeals to me. :p

    I'm really happy with how everything is coming together here, it is such an incredible group of people. =] I'm really happy to be a part of this section and look forward to what is to come.

  18. #18
    skeletons need smokes 4thseal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    ^well, i think we all are happy to have you as a part of this section^^.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martzu View Post

    I have a suggestion. Could we have thread name labelling system here too as there is in gfx section (at least there used to be for different type of pics posted) and in Humor zone. And why? Because it might encourage peeps to open more bravely posts made in lit section and give feedback when they have some idea what they are getting when clicking it open.

    Something like this:
    [P] = poem
    [N] = novel
    [SS] = short story
    [FF] = fanfiction
    ... and maybe others

    Edit: how could I forgot fanfiction
    ^This is a great idea! I assumed you were talking about the main lit sectioned and have modified it according to your suggestion =]


    Quote Originally Posted by batman555 View Post

    Voting via the ranking method
    If we do this, it will require some math. It will provide feedback on how we stand in comparison with the other entries. With the splitting of the votes, all we know is that we're "tied" with someone else, but with the ranking method, voters are forced to read a little more critically.
    ^I have also modified the battle rules to have this judging system in place. So, if you are or plan on running a battle please conform to this form of judging.


    I wouldn't want the activity of the section decrease, so I reasoned it would've been better to create a subsection such as this when activity has gone up.
    Just want to point out that while the purpose of this section is to make things more clear, it's also to help build a better community. We've finally got a solid, awesome, freaking great group of members. And, now we can branch out just a bit, and all help the section grow and have a lot of fun in the process =].
    Last edited by 4thseal; 04-04-2008 at 04:33 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    Yes, that was exactly what I meant. This token blond just weren't thinking again before posting. My apologies about that, but I am happy to see it was taken so well ^^

    Another thing that have bothered me tiny bit. I am wondering does it bother others as well. I find it troublesome to have Weekly and Monthly Contest -threads and then separate one thread for all Contest Critiques and Discussion. Why not keep contest threads open and allow readers to comment them where the commented writings is most easily reached. Of course this should happen after entries are judged.

    I hope I managed to put my thoughts in understandable way.

  20. #20
    skeletons need smokes 4thseal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contest Section Discussion Thread

    ^I totally get what you're saying. And, it's more than fine to post responses in the contest threads after the comp is done. Though, I do still want to close those threads after some time, and I would like to keep the discussion thread open so that we can still discuss the contests and make suggestions and stuff. Also, it serves as a place to post coments while the contests are still running.

    I do, however, apologize for closing last weeks wwc so soon, and will leave them open longer in the future so that people may post comments when the contest is over.

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